I think "reliability" is based more on reputation these days than reality. This all goes back to the days of American clunkers and how the Japanese brands embraced "reliability" as a way to differentiate themselves. Who doesn't remember Found On Road Dead, or the jokes swirling around Lee Iacooca's K cars?

When I see the words reliability and cars together, I can trace my preconceived notions and biases all the way back to those days. But you have to ask yourself, is that how it really is today?

Psychology plays a huge part in this in my opinion. You own an Lexus and, upon a visit to the dealer, they inform you that you need new control arms at 60k miles for $2000, or new engine mounts at 50k miles for $500. These unanticipated repair bills probably won't taint your view that your LEXUS is reliable. You think of it as a fluke. Now repeat that scenario in your BMW or Audi and that bias and built up preconceived notion in the back of your head will probably make you say to yourself, this thing is an unreliable hunk of crap!

The disparity in reliability today is nowhere near what it once was. You'll be surprised on how common parts for different manufacturers come from the same third-party company. All cars are equally complex and, properly maintained, can provide well over 100k miles of nearly trouble-free driving. Coincidentally,I've had more problems with my brand-new Lexus than my current car and previous brand-new car prior to my Lexus.

 

 

I tend to agree with you. The BMW M3 in 2008, its extended warranty I remember was $7,100, to take it to 6/100. Many would make a case, that at $7,100, for 2 years and 50k miles, this was an excellent value. A much better value than say $2,000, on a Toyota Camry. Because they would say in the former you actually get a lot, and the latter, you waste your money and get nothing.

It would seem that some equate reliability with never having a single thing go wrong. Well, a coworker got one of those $13,xxx 2.75 y.o. Camrys CPO, and it had a problem with the a/c right off the bat, fixed by the dealership. So by some folks that is an unreliable car.

When Hoovie buys a Land Cruiser '99 with 350k for $2,100, and it has 2 things wrong with it, I consider that reliable.

To say that a Lexus or Toyota or Honda is pretty reliable, and a Range Rover or 8 cyl. X5 is unreliable, isn't exactly gonna win anybody a Nobel Prize

No doubt I prefer to drive a 335i to a LS on the weekends, but to get to work, the LS isn't bad and pretty practical

 

FORD also meant "Fix or Repair Daily" and, in many cases, "First on Race Day".

I owned two K-car-based vehicles, brand new, and, though one was much worse than the other one, neither one was, IMO, what I'd call well-built or reliable. GM's X-body cars (I also owned one of those) were even worse....in some cases, much worse. But I don't remember public jokes about any of them, like with the Yugo and Hyundai Excel that came along a few years later..

One thing, though, that doesn't help with BMW or Audi (even more so with Mercedes), is that it often costs more, for the same repair, on one of those vehicles than it does a Lexus. And don't even ask about Porsche.

 

That BMW > Lexus imho is a misconception. If DIY, BMW often costs far less. Because it is very very easy to buy OE, OEM, or aftermarket. With Lexus, it's often OE, or aftermarket, and sometimes no aftermarket.

At the dealer, same thing. I remember my buddy telling me Lexus is a joke, they don't even use synthetic motor oil, require a change every 5k, and charge $110 (this was 2007). My BMW costs less than that and it's synthetic.

Pull a 3rd gen LS430 into a dealership, and they want to replace the front lower control arms for like $1600. They are stamped steel. On a BMW, they would be forged aluminum, and cost less.

Just sayin'....

Now, if you find a Japanese indie who is worth his/her salt, they will try their best to save you $$$$. There is far less competition than with Germans...

 

Well, it's true that BMW probably has more DIY work being done by owners, if, for no other reason, simply that it is such an enthusiast-oriented brand....a higher percentage of Lexus owners are more likely to just drive it (or have it towed) to the dealership and let John Q. Technician do the work. But, though usually not as expensive as Mercedes or Porsche, BMW service-shops do have a reputation as money-pits.

 

I have set foot in a Lexus dealership 5 times, 2X with my car, 2X for parts (plastic fasteners, and touch-up paint, neither of which did they really stock), once to look at a used LS430. I have to admit, I felt quite uneasy the first time I drove my LS430 in, with about 81k. The dealership recommended approx. $6k, worth of work.

Now let's break this down like drums and bass. If a 10 y.o. car needs $6k worth of work, then I may as well have bought a A8L that would have 20k less miles, and cost over $2k less. I could have applied the savings to the A8's repairs as they came up, and the A8 was a good $15k more when new.

Luckily, out of that $6k, the only "recommended" repair by an indie, was timing belt/water pump, @ $850.

 

I had such a problem. From the time I picked up my 2007 Camry, new, from my dealer some distance from home, I had problems with the sun visors; they would not stay in position. In the grand scheme of things, that was a very minor problem but still a very annoying problem. I spent a lot of time going back to that far-away dealer to have them fixed and/or replaced.

Finally, after 4 replacements (if I remember correctly), the dealer discovered that the previous visors had not been properly installed, which caused the flopping issue. That final replacement, following the proper installation procedure, fixed the problem for good.

I would not consider this a reliability issue because it did not prevent the car from working as intended but it was worse than a rattle or squeak; the car worked but I was annoyed having to constantly fiddle with the sun visor.


The general definition of Quality is "the ability to meet expectations". So infotainment usability problems may not reliability issues and may not be build quality issues, but they are still general quality (poor design rather than poor build) issues.

Regarding standardization, I do believe that we will eventually get there, in a fashion similar to what we now see on consumer computers (desktop and laptop computers, tablet and other handheld computers, etc.).

On consumer computers, we have come to an agreement regarding the look and feel of all programs and applications that come installed on the computers or that we install separately. They have similar menu names and structures ("File", "Edit", "View", etc.) with expectations about what belongs in each menu. We may place icons on the desktop (our choice of applications) that allow us to efficiently access only the applications that we want quick access to.

The method of accessing the applications on our consumer computers has become intuitive to us, and most of us can pick up a Microsoft Windows or Apple or Android computer and use it with only a small learning curve; we are not yet at that level with vehicle infotainment systems but I believe that we will eventually get there.

 

independent mech charged you $850 for a timing belt/water pump? Still seems high....unless you're comparing it to the Lexus price.

 

Seemed to be the going rate, Lexus is $1,800 if you want the idlers etc. I found in the forum the rate seems to be $700-$900 at an indie depending on locale (mine was NJ, i.e. higher), and of course some DIY, parts are likely to be around $200-$250 with the coolant. This is the first and only car I've ever owned that had a belt. All the others were either OHV or had a chain with SOHC and DOHC. The belt imho is archaic but it is what it is...

 

Agree with this entirely!

 

I don't keep cars to 200K, never had a car past 130K miles but I would like to be able to if I wanted to, if my 2nd GS430 was not totaled I would have kept it a long time, it had less then 110K miles but looked and drove like it was new, I absolutely hate shopping for a car and dealing with salesmen and there is simply not much I like unless I want to spend a ton of money which I don't. I take care of my cars, wax, polish, use the best product I can afford so even past 100K my vehicles look and drive almost new.

 

My goal was 300k on my Maxima, and it's capable because someone on the forum had reached 479k years ago....I want to reach 300k on the LS430, again, it's capable. I'm thinking that because it came from FLA, it will be at least 8 yrs ahead of northeastern cars when it comes to rust. The issue is time, as I'm only at 102k today. My focus right now is on trying to get the right house, and all the other expenditures make it more difficult. It's easy to get the car of your dreams, it's really difficult to do that with the home, especially if in the location you want...

 

Well said. Especially for someone like me who changes cars every year or two, this is exactly why I've "slipped" on loyalty with Lexus the last couple of years - first one was with the A4, and now the Stinger. A4 was a mistake and I got rid of it 6 weeks later (bored), but Stinger is a keeper.

And let's not forget "Fast Only Rolling Downhill" lol.