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i just find it funny the data from the ECU is all digital, then we have to convert it to mechanical again with a gauge instead of it staying purely digital to begin with
^^ That's what I was thinking. Are dead pixels on cluster displays or flickering aged instrument displays a thing? And what are they to have fixed out of warranty? What are they like to take apart to repair with a DIY method using replacement electronic parts?
I DO like the more beautiful digital cluster designs but I can't help going there when I see extremely screen intensive designs that seem to have non-box-shaped displays that might be extremely difficult to replicate on the aftermarket.
Although they were in the past, I dont think LCD failures are a thing anymore-just bringing it up it because it's possible they may still occur. I'm sure they catch the infant mortalities and manufacturer defects at burn-in and/or inspection and the QA handles the failures and defects accordingly. I looked up the MTBF of some LCD's and some are advertised to be 100,000 hours! This should significantly reduce the amount of failures installed in cars, but it's hard to say what they will do to the electronics if they do fail in or out of warranty. Will car manufacturers handle returns like Apple, Intel, Asus or other similar companies? Honestly, not sure and sounds like it will go through the dealers and internal corporate RMA return departments per manufacturer. Just guessing, but they may salvage (desolder usable) parts from the electronics and even get resold back to us as "refurbished" if it passes the refurbishment process. These are internal processes that probably may not be discussed, but would honestly like to know with all these electronics.
The electronic, truly digital instrument display that mimics an analog dial display is one technology that has now migrated from modern airliners to modern automobiles. Although all new airliners have had electronic displays for about 20 years now, it is only now making it into automobiles; this is because the very-high resolution, high-reliability LCD panels required for electronic displays are expensive.
To mimic analog displays with sweeping dial hands requires high resolution (an extremely-high pixel count) and fast refresh rates; low pixel count displays will show jagged sweep hands, and slow refresh rates will show jumpy updates (like analog clocks displayed on desktop computers). Analog dials are rendered in electronic displays because analog dials have proven best at transmitting information at-a-glance, where absolute figures are not required; engine data on modern airliners is still displayed with analog dial-like displays. With only a glance, pilots can determine if engine parameters are in acceptable operating range or out of range.
The benefit of the electronic display is that because it is, essentially, just a computer display, it can be reconfigured at any time to display any information that may be available. The instrument display directly in front of the driver and the central stack display could be combined into one, show-all display, just like on the new Audis.
Although they were in the past, I dont think LCD failures are a thing anymore-just bringing it up it because it's possible they may still occur. I'm sure they catch the infant mortalities and manufacturer defects at burn-in and/or inspection and the QA handles the failures and defects accordingly. I looked up the MTBF of some LCD's and some are advertised to be 100,000 hours! This should significantly reduce the amount of failures installed in cars, but it's hard to say what they will do to the electronics if they do fail in or out of warranty. Will car manufacturers handle returns like Apple, Intel, Asus or other similar companies? Honestly, not sure and sounds like it will go through the dealers and internal corporate RMA return departments per manufacturer. Just guessing, but they may salvage (desolder usable) parts from the electronics and even get resold back to us as "refurbished" if it passes the refurbishment process. These are internal processes that probably may not be discussed, but would honestly like to know with all these electronics.
Actually they do fail, quite a bit. A lot of the OEM cluster assemblies roll out of Chinese factories these days. Most, if not all of the GM digital dashes back in the 80's and 90's failed within a period of time needing repair or rebuilds due to failure or polarizing film wearing down. Then it seemed like everyone went back to analog gauges after that.
We are already seeing a ton of LCD failures from Ford's and Dodges as new as 2013 and 2014. What do you think the dealer tells customers? Buy a new cluster. These issues are repairable either by sending them into us for repair or us sending you replacement screens and components. The life cycles of clusters seem to be getting much lower. We are replacing a lot of stuff from the mid to late 2000's already. Another problem with LCD's is heat. Cars trap a ton of heat. That heat leads to failures.
Actually they do fail, quite a bit. A lot of the OEM cluster assemblies roll out of Chinese factories these days. Most, if not all of the GM digital dashes back in the 80's and 90's failed within a period of time needing repair or rebuilds due to failure or polarizing film wearing down. Then it seemed like everyone went back to analog gauges after that.
We are already seeing a ton of LCD failures from Ford's and Dodges as new as 2013 and 2014. What do you think the dealer tells customers? Buy a new cluster. These issues are repairable either by sending them into us for repair or us sending you replacement screens and components. The life cycles of clusters seem to be getting much lower. We are replacing a lot of stuff from the mid to late 2000's already. Another problem with LCD's is heat. Cars trap a ton of heat. That heat leads to failures.
great info! man, sucks to hear they didnt have the QA in place when receiving LCD's from China, but I get it, they're testing samples per lot. And, you'd think that MY2013 and MY2014 LCD's would be covered under warranty- guess not. The heat failures should have also been known if manufacturers used environmental test chambers in their stress testing...
Clusters used to be heavy, durable, with a lot of well made components and screws holding everything together. Now they are super light, usually have no screws, and are mostly all plastic. Even the needle motors are made of plastic and have plastic gears.
Clusters used to be heavy, durable, with a lot of well made components and screws holding everything together. Now they are super light, usually have no screws, and are mostly all plastic. Even the needle motors are made of plastic and have plastic gears.
Makes me wonder if the gauge in my IS is also the same way, with low-quality sliding tach motor.
What's funny is that it's about 90% TFT, but has a few indicator lights and that physical bezel around the tach, which adds needless complexity for the sake of being "cool". I actually do find it cool though.
Some of the Lexus Denso built clusters are made in Japan and are really high quality still. The Fsport clusters are solid with the sliding round metal frame. Still, their weak point is the huge screen. Once it starts to go you lose everything, not just one gauge or small display.
if mercedes didnt make analog gauge images on a digital cluster it wouldnt need to be that big, look how small Lexus gauges are. Digital screens allow you to convey information much more simply and give dramtically more flexibility than fixed gauges
i dont get that logic, do my computer screens when they are off look cheap if it doesnt have a bunch of dials and gauges on it?
industrial control rooms used to look like this.
now they look like this
so people are telling me that the former is better than the latter
if mercedes didnt make analog gauge images on a digital cluster it wouldnt need to be that big, look how small Lexus gauges are
i dont get that logic, do my computer screens when they are off look cheap if it doesnt have a bunch of dials and gauges on it?
With an S-class, need is never really the point of the way things are designed. Make the screens bigger, and they can display more stuff legibly!
I for one think the screens on the Benz models look quite nice. I do appreciate the look of classic analog tachometer and speedometer, but even then, a nice, clear multi-info display between them, like in the G80 I drove, is a good thing.
Slightly off topic, but I am a Flight Deck Design Engineer in commercial aviation. I work a lot with the displays.
The large displays have been wonderful in Flight Deck (not "cockpit"!!!) design. So much information readily available to the crew. These screens are notably more robust than what are found in automobiles, though. We've had great success with reliability in moving from CRT to LCD displays.
Some of you may know my disdain for touch screens. We've been pretty successful at keeping away from them (deemed less reliable), but that is changing. We're moving to touch screens in aviation. Bleck.
On the topic of cars, I don't really care that much, as long as the info I need is readily available. I've had both analog and TFT/LCD displays. The only ones that have ever failed on me are the older analog ones.
I like the digital displays from Lexus but am fine with whatever they come with. It wouldn't be a deciding factor when I buy a car.
But touch screens... I bought my Highlander despite the touch screen. It's the one thing I don't like about the car.
11-08-17, 10:45 AM
I actually do find it cool though.
