Folks, I'm not just picking on Toyota here. And I didn't start this thread to start a war, or engage in general rock-tossing....we have enough to argue about in Car Chat as it is. I simply call it like I see it. There are things about many other manufacturers that, if I see fit, I criticize as well....yep, even at Buick LOL.

 

I'm currently on my second Audi (A6) and must say that their reputation for well built interiors is deserved. I'm also currently on my second BMW and their material quality and fit and finish is top notch too. The styling is a bit Spartan/plain vs. the competition but the quality and ergonomics are very good. Once you get up to the 5 Series, X5 and above things are more luxurious.

 

Hey, some very fair comments. I would agree that the German cars are the benchmark. I am not as much of a fan of the newest of new Audi's compared to the interior of MB and BMW. But the Audi is still good.

As for the 07 Camry. I think it could be argued that the interiors of the Corolla, Camry, Highlander, Tundra, RAV4 from that era were all a disappointment for the price expectations of the time. But, while those interiors might of been a disappointment to some, the cars of that era did offer a very good upgrade in the powetrain, features, and performance.

Now as per the thread title, almost all of the current Toyota offerings are a pretty solid upgrade over the previous predecessor.

As for the German cars, anyone could easily go in and pick an interior apart. But if the price expectations are met, I think it is hard to argue on most cars. I think the Avalon actually exceeds expectations for what it is.

 

Meh, MeThinks OP has buyers remorse and is trying to convince himself he made the right choice. But, I just call it as I see it.

 

Disagree. There are substantial differences between brands. Don't look at defects per 100 cars..look at reliability over a 5 year or longer time frame.

Compare Fiat and Lexus...not even close as one example.

 

Yes you are. You don't like the company or their products that's perfectly fine.

 

YouThinks wrong. First, I did not buy a Toyota product (though I have a lot of respect for the Lexus ES350 and strongly considered it). Second, I am quite satisfied with my purchase.....I have about a 98% favorable rating of it. Third, when one tries to read other people's minds, it's usually tossing the dice at best, and often inaccurate.

 

If that was the case, then why was an ES350 second on my shopping-list....right behind a Lacrosse? You're making the same mistake as hypervish......trying to read peoples' minds.There are some things about today's Toyota products that are excellent, but also some things, on some of their models, that, IMO, deserve criticism.

 

but when looking at a 5 year or longer time frame you have to look at 5 or more year old cars so that could be largely irrelevant compared to TODAY's versions of even the same cars. for example, i bet the quality of a new jaguar is way better than it was 5 years ago, so if you make a buying decision on a new one based on how a 5 year old one rates, then you may be selling a new one short. of course, no one really knows how a new vehicle is going to perform, but manufacturers are ALL trying to make their vehicles better, even if some do better than others in execution.

clearly toyota/lexus has an exemplary record, but even they've had issues now and then, but that wouldn't stop me from buying a toyota/lexus!

 

I can only speak to what I know, so if you compare a 2007 BMW, to a 2012, to a 2017 (I've driven every model year (an example of every year, not every model, since 2006 through 2018 inclusive)), and in my opinion, the quality has gone down. This is by design. What I perceive as quality may not be what someone else perceives it to be. Lift the hood of a 2007, and lift the hood of a 2018. Compare the materials. Lift the vehicle itself, and compare the exhaust systems. You may find a true dual exhaust system on the 2007, and a fakey on the 2018. The latter cost 1/4 the amount to manufacture. I would say it's about cost, and relying upon software to do something for the driver, as opposed to hardware. The latter costs a lot more.

I drove a brand new Hyundai Sante Fe last week for 5 days. I would say everything fit rather well, but overall the vehicle was cheaply assembled. Maybe a 2007 has a higher quality feel? I dunno, I'm not that experienced with Hyundai.

The last Toyota I drove for a week was a Camry and it was a 2015. I felt it was cheaply made, but that's only after 7 days on the road with it. my .02 Coworker bought one with 35k or so on it, and it's had multiple issues to fix in the interior, nothing powertrain related...

 

So what should I do? Can't look at future cars..have to look at the past. If 1-5 years old Jags have problems, I would never buy one. May as well buy a scratch and win lottery ticket...the new one "could" be better...but it likely won't stray that far from historical results.

 

first of all, how do you determine blanketly than any model 'has problems' - although between consumer reports flawed reports, j.d. power, and to me more importantly, forums like this, you can get an idea of course. second, depends on the nature of the problems. for example, when i was looking for what to buy this last time around, i almost settled on a honda crv touring which is generally considered EXTREMELY reliable, but when i went to pick it up (yes i was that close!) the dealer called and said it was broken, an electronic part needed to be replaced that was new and hard to get... so disappointed, i started looking around. i'd read about jeep and chrysler unreliability for years of course, but when i looked at the grand cherokee, i saw that it had kept getting better (since the current design and previous gen has been around a LONG time), and that the '14 year had software issues with the (at the time) new 8 speed auto, but that during that year and certainly for '15s they'd 'fixed it'. so i took the chance on the '15 being ok and it worked out. but nothing's guaranteed.

 

The point of manufacture of any auto part can be from any factory in any country that said car maker decides to have make said part. You will not know where it was made. Its just like labeling on your food in the grocery store, it says "distributed by". The parts shipped in bulk may go to who ever boxes them, if its in Japan or the US it will say US or Japan on the box. And if the box is made in Japan or the US it will not be a lie if the label says made in US or made in Japan.

 

Rant based on my past few years of experience...

I owned a 2010 Camry, then a 2015 (briefly). The 2015 interior was still kinda cheap, but it looked miles ahead of the 2010. I mean, it had actual contrast stitching, decent-quality HVAC and audio controls, and a much nicer steering wheel. It developed a couple of rattles even in the ~18 months I had it, but otherwise it was a very solid vehicle. Looking back to the 2010, likewise, it was mechanically very sound, except for a strange issue early on in my ownership of it where the brakes were being lightly applied at all times regardless of whether I was pressing the pedal. Somehow I didn't notice it for some time, and the dealer was quite shocked to find the issue when I brought it in! Aside from that, the only issue I remember being annoying was that the center console latch was loose and would rattle occasionally. Again, just a minor interior quirk. The interior itself was definitely cheaper looking, with much more obvious cheap plastic, but the seats were plenty comfy. I'd say compared to other rental midsize/compact sedans and such I've driven (Malibus, Sonatas, Altimas, Cruzes, Corollas, etc.) the Camry is competitive, if not better. The 2016 Corolla, as well, that I happened to drive was... economy, but not as downright cheap as some entry-level models like the Versa. It definitely seemed solid, aside from, again, an annoying center console rattle. Seems to be a theme!

Anyway I can't speak to past Toyotas, but honestly the new ones just need some work in the build quality department. They don't seem to leave me stranded though.

 

I know this is just anecdotal evidence, but our new RX has been 100% flawless so far in our ownership. All parts are fastened tightly, doors close without rattles, everything is aligned perfectly, nothing seems top notch. I know its early days, we've only had for 3 months so far, but so far so good.