I'm not trying to correlate the two, but just by demand alone in Japan where the LS is not as much as a seller than the US, it's very good. Over 9000 orders before its release is more than twice as much as the current LS will likely sell over here. It may not be as big of a jump in the states, but I don't know why anyone would think the car won't sell.

 

 

 

Pardon me....lol


My argument is that there is that once you pass certain threshold of price, these cars are no longer sold based on price. Its now based on the prestige of what the brand means or how much you are willing to pay for that badge. So perhaps the value of brand is what I might say, but not the car individual value, ​​​​​​When you are shopping for a Corolla, Camry, Accord or Sonata, its all price competitive first, people at that point are definitely looking for value.

I don't think you can ever say luxury cars or goods can ever be considered a value.

 

No, not if you compare them to a 15K econobox, but there is such a thing as value in a large luxury vehicle compared to its competitors. If you have not already checked out a Genesis G90, by all means, do so, then compare its 68-69K base price with the cars it competes against (and, actually betters, in some ways)...the LS500, A8, S550, and 7-series. Yes, the LS will probably be the most reliable, the A8 will have the best fit/finish and AWD system, the S550 will have the most safety equipment, and the 7-series will probably be the best drivers' car. But, as a total well-rounded package, it G90 is hard to beat for the price....and not to mention the best warranty.

 

There really is no difference in shopping between a Corolla and Civic compared to Sclass and 7series.
Things like features, design, price, value all come into play.

 

See, this is where your argument falls apart. Not everyone wants an S-class. And the fact is, you have no idea what people want. People want what they want and it all differs.

 

 

I think your opinion is inline with the Lexus company line. However I beg to differ just cause of what I perceive with Lexus LS and by some extension what I have observed with how certain models have sold in years past. I agree that Lexus is no longer a youngin in the field of high dollar luxury cars, but they still have to do the tango when trying to attract customers with value.

My tried and true example which is getting old but still holds true is the current gen GS. That thing was won all the top awards, and bested the best in class 5 series...Sadly it sold like a turd, UNTIL Lexus overfilled the trunk with that movin money. VALUE in getting the best mid size rwd performance saloon for less then everyone else.

The LS, from a paper comparo is the exact same way, matches and/bests the stalwarts of the segment, but without a good value proposition its gonna suffer in sales.

 

Not everyone wants an s class is exactly why the other competitors exist. But with the sales of the S class ahead of everyone else, I`d reckon to assume, alot of people want that car tho

 

I disagree and what's very strange is you're setting a threshold to where you say value no longer exists ($50k-$60k). So you admit that value exists below that but think it disappears beyond that?? Why do you feel that way and what is the $60k based on? How do you justify value between a $35k car and $60k car? Do you think it's possible someone else is thinking there is no way to justify the difference between a $20k car and a $50k car - and that value to them doesn't exist beyond say $30k?

To me, value exists at every price point of every category for absolutely everything you can buy. Houses can be astronomically priced but still offer great "value" (good school district, low price relative to others in neighborhood, needs no cosmetic work, offers likelihood of appreciation). I'm in sales and have sold pieces of capital equipment that cost 5x the amount of my competitor. People bought like crazy because the value proposition was valid and it was a better "investment" (even though it still depreciated over time) for them.

I understand this is just your opinion (although it wasn't really stated like an opinion), but just because you don't see the value in something above a certain price point doesn't mean it doesn't exist to others. I bet if you asked someone driving a $250k Rolls Royce how they justified the purchase you'd get some insight into the ways other people think and make decisions. You may still disagree, but I find if I listen close enough I always learn something.

 

Agree with the above on all counts.

 

The S class of that era had strengths over the LS430 at the time, the S class had more power, better performance, available 12 cylinder, it handled better, to me had a better interior design and was better looking though a lot of costs were obviously cut with that era and it was not as solid as the previous S class or the LS.

The LS430 at the time was much more reliable, better built, interior quality was better, less complicated, easier to live with and maintain as the S class, rode as smoothly but it did not handle well at all.

The S class still seemed like a car a notch above the LS430, not a big notch but still a nicer more upscale car.

 

the you in this case must be YOU, in that YOU don't see any value, but you're completely and utterly wrong that others don't see value at different price points. as has been pointed out, many EXTREMELY wealthy people buy a $90K car instead of a $100K car to "save money". sure it's all a rationalization, but they think the $90K car is good value TO THEM but the $100K isn't.

you're doing what several on here do and that's only see things through your own point of view.

exactly.

we know your argument and it's flat wrong.

TO YOU. some people see a $30K rolex watch or a $50K diamond ring as "good value" perhaps because they think it will retain or even appreciate in value. for me, i see an ugly watch i'd never spend $30K on.

correct not everyone wants an S-Class but neither do you know what everyone wants. what we're saying is people vary widely and have different amounts they're willing to spend and rationalize need, want, and value in different ways. for example, a $100K LX is probably considered by most of its buyers as a GREAT value because a) it's highly reliable, and b) it should last forever. for me, i get bored of cars in 6 years or less, so i wouldn't want one so it doesn't represent good value. but i do like the LX in many ways!