This! "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

Well their existing formula didn’t work anymore based on sales, and the field is getting more crowded with new upstarts entering the market like Genesis and even Lincoln.

I don’t think this new LS offers anything compelling other than a swoopy look. The question now, will it offer value?

Having a decent engine doesn’t mean “sporty” either, and so far, this engine isn’t very decent based on recent testing.

The MB S can shuttle itself very quickly and yet I wouldn’t call that sporty. There’s a difference.

 

I agree on the swoopy coupe profile. However the LS just looks like its squatting in the front and the back...

 

Very true, nowdays when you have upstarts using the original Lexus formula, value in the LS seems to be in a weird position.



All this and only starting at 68K...? TBH your getting the wood trim off a 7 series, design thats borrowing heavily from the last gen 7 series, LS, A8, S classes, and tech thats on par with current contenders....I think its a solid logical choice.

The LS basically is offering you a fresher design, Lexus nameplate, and some new tech features
In regards to the power and how its basically not a V8 so OH NO. Its hard to predict how the market will respond. The 7 series has been offering a 6 for enough to understand it works with customers, but they do offer a choice of an 8 to help those with cylinder issues. On the op end, look at Volvo with their I4s only lineup. People claimed it wouldnt move the company would end. But their still alive and doing well. Their luxury clientile really didnt mind the raspyness i4, as long as it had the power and the interior was opulent. Customers actually were more concerned about the operation of Sensus then their i4s. So hey the move to a tt v6 could be a none issue.

 

At the end of the day PRICING will determine if this thing will sell.

if the RX, can sell being as ugly as it is then the LS will be fine as well.
The V6 will NOT be a big deal to most buyers.
It all comes down to final price and how well it will LEASE.

 

1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th gen S Class sales figures N/A.
Only Lexus 1st, 2nd & 3rd gen sales figures are available.
1989-94 1LS debut in 1990 with an S Class-thumping 42,806 units in the USA.
1994-00 2LS debut in 1995 with an S Class-thumping 23,657 units.
2000-06 3LS debut in 2001 with an S Class-thumping 31,110 units.

5th generation 2005-13 S Class debut in 2006 with 30,886 units in USA.
4th gen 2006-18 LS debut in 2007 with an S Class-thumping 35,226 units in USA.

How can you say that Lexus's existing 4LS formula no longer worked anymore based on sales?
Are you expecting the ageing 11 year old 4.5LS to still sell against a brand new 2014 S Class?

 

The most recent numbers are all we have to trend off of. I'm not sure if those early days of the LS have any significant impact on sales today. It sure isn't showing.

I think LS numbers were trending down way early in the model cycle and the depth or magnitude of drop off is probably worse than any equivalent model during the same time span or at the same age of the model cycle. Whether this new model can reverse that remains to be seen, but I don't believe it will depending on the price as I don't believe there's anything compelling to drive sales versus those early models. That value proposition will be a key element.

 

Who buys a luxury car for its value proposition? If I wanted value, I would buy a Corolla or Camry, or even an Avalon, not a Lexus.

Lexus is now almost 30-years old. Lexus is NOT Genesis. Genesis is the young wannabe, trying to prove that it can fight it out with the big (German and Japanese) boys and girls; Lexus is no longer the wannabe. Genesis is now following in Lexus' footsteps (just as Hyundai was once following in Toyota's footsteps). Lexus is now a true, mature, luxury brand and we should treat it as such.

 

A luxury brand yes, but it's also an ES and RX brand. The IS is the compact Bimmer-competing star. The GS is in need of a new model soon and it doesn't sell in big numbers. The LS is a good car on its merits, but right now it's missing some choices. Where is the V8tt? And where is the V6tt plug-in hybrid? For this kind of money people are going to be looking around. The Germans aren't too worried right now.

The other Japanese manufacturers and Koreans are closing in and Lexus can't just cruise along on reliability or smoothy smooth ride stuff. A lot of time has passed and time stands still for no manufacturer. Infiniti has its beautiful Q60s Red Sport. No need to mention the German coupes. The LS needs some extra drive train options and a styling tweak.

 

If nobody bought luxury cars for the value proposition Lexus wouldn’t exist. Believe me, as a customer in this segment value matters for sure. Value always matters.

 

agreed

 

I said it earlier in this thread about the sales, but in Japan the orders have exceeded the monthly sales expectations (600 cars) by over 1500%, but here's a link https://lexusenthusiast.com/2017/11/...ar-sales-goal/

 

 

I can’t think of a single Lexus model that doesn’t present a value in its segment...

 

but this kinda contradicts everything else you've said because lexus broke everything previous with the new LS. it ain't conservative. it doesn't have a V8. it doesn't come in two lengths. it has a much more imaginative (beautiful) interior, new tech like massive HUD, very curvy outside styling, etc.

value is possible at all price points. some people WANT certain features/design but don't want to pay top $ for it. so some will see the LS as a 'bargain S class' etc.

they are indeed not a new kid any longer, which is why it's surprising that in the u.s. it can't break out of just being the RX/ES vendor for the most part. the CT is a failure. the HS failed. the GX/LX continue to sell (GX due to clever repackaging/pricing and they're trying that now with stripper 2 row LX with no options). the GS is on life support. the new LS should be ok but we'll see. the IS has never really made bmw/audi/mb fret about the 3/4/a4/c sales. i don't see the german brands killing off models? lexus has shown it makes fabulous quality desirable vehicles, but with limited options flexibility, limited models, and typically highly inflexible dealers with little inventory, it remains hard to see how lexus will grow from here. i WANT them to be much more successful though! but i think they're vulnerable.

in japan, the LS has no domestic competition and japanese consumers are very domestic brand loyal, so it's hard to see how that info will in any way translate to the u.s. i've no doubt though that the LS should get off to a good start in the u.s. due to pent up demand.