China Wants to Ban Gas & Diesel Cars
09-11-17, 03:56 PM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
China Wants to Ban Gas & Diesel Cars
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/11/news...ban/index.html
China is preparing to put the brakes on gasoline and diesel cars.
The country, home to the world's largest auto market, is working on a plan to ban the production and sale of vehicles powered solely by fossil fuels, officials say.The Chinese government is following in the footsteps of countries like India, France, Britain and Norway, which have already announced plans to ditch gas and diesel cars in favor of cleaner vehicles in the coming years.
Related: Ford will create new brand to make electric cars in China
Regulators haven't decided yet when the Chinese ban would take effect, but work has begun on a timetable, according to China's vice minister of industry, Xin Guobin.
He warned carmakers they need to adjust their strategies to the changing situation, according to state-run Chinese news agency Xinhua.
Authorities will offer subsidies of as much as half the retail price of electric and some hybrid vehicles to help buoy production, Xinhua reported, citing an official from the Chinese Finance Ministry.
Related: These countries want to ditch gas and diesel cars
The subsidies are good news for electric car manufacturers.
Dozens of models are already on sale in the world's 2nd-largest economy. International auto giants like Ford (F), and Volkswagen (VLKAF) are aiming to develop fully electric cars in China. GM (GM) already sells the fully electric Bolt in the U.S. and the tiny Baojun 100 in China.
Tesla (TSLA) stock climbed 5% on news in U.S. trading Monday. Tesla sells only all-electric cars and is rolling out its first mass-market car, the Model 3.
The Chinese market is already dominated by domestic manufacturers like BAIC and BYD(BYDDF), which have aggressively pursued the electric vehicle business. BYD shares gained 4.6% in Hong Kong on Monday following the Chinese officials' comments about the potential ban over the weekend.
Chinese-owned Volvo (VOLAF) announced in July that every car it makes from 2019 onward will have an electric motor.
Related: GM is selling a $5,000 electric car in China
Plagued by air pollution, China has been swift to adopt the technology.
Last year, China accounted for more than 40% of the 753,000 electric vehicles sold worldwide, according to the International Energy Agency. That's more than twice as many as the number sold in the U.S.
But while electric sales are increasing fast in China, it remains an overwhelmingly gas and diesel dominated market.
Of the roughly 28 million vehicles sold in China last year, just over 1% were electric, according to the International Energy Agency. The agency defines electric cars as ones powered by batteries or hybrid cars that plug into the power source.
The Chinese government wants 5 million electric cars on the country's roads by 2020.
09-11-17, 05:59 PM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
This isn't the days of Mao and hard-line Chinese Communism any more....the old men in Beijing can't just snap their fingers and have the entire country bend to their will. The Chinese public loves their cars (especially Buicks) 
....and you're talking about a country with well over a billion people. Yes, the government can set a policy that leans towards electric vehicles...but good luck enforcing it.
....and you're talking about a country with well over a billion people. Yes, the government can set a policy that leans towards electric vehicles...but good luck enforcing it.
09-11-17, 09:36 PM
#3
Also China is a HUGE country, like the US. Electric cars in China, like the US, just don't work if you want to travel to the next city or providence over. Thus they become a novelty commuter car, you have to have a second car to do long trips, thus they're not economically viable for most people. IMO electric cars might be part of the solution for places like Japan and parts of Europe, where people live in cities, live closer to work and things are a lot more densely populated.
Small, cheap electric cars might be a great solution for Japan and parts of Europe, just rely on the great public transit to get you to the next city that is 200 miles over. Then once you are there, the public transit in said city is usually very good with buses, trains, etc. But once again, I think electric cars need to be significantly cheaper than petrol cars if you want them to be a considerable part of the market. You need the price to be way cheaper for the trade off in reduced utility.
And IMO full electric cars are not something the government should subsidize, the market needs to work this out. Governments in Europe subsidized diesel fuel because its more efficient, now we have smog in Paris, Rome, London, Milan, Hamburg, etc. If you start offering massive state subsidies on electric cars, the governments should damn well know there will be a huge drain on the electrical grid, there will be a need for more power plants, turbines, transmission lines, not to mention the need for more charging stations. So there is no free lunch IMO with full electric cars.
Honestly the future IMO is with plug in hybrids like the Volt. Use electricity on short trips, gas motor on long trips. It completely solves the utility/range anxiety/needing two cars problem of current electric cars.
Small, cheap electric cars might be a great solution for Japan and parts of Europe, just rely on the great public transit to get you to the next city that is 200 miles over. Then once you are there, the public transit in said city is usually very good with buses, trains, etc. But once again, I think electric cars need to be significantly cheaper than petrol cars if you want them to be a considerable part of the market. You need the price to be way cheaper for the trade off in reduced utility.
And IMO full electric cars are not something the government should subsidize, the market needs to work this out. Governments in Europe subsidized diesel fuel because its more efficient, now we have smog in Paris, Rome, London, Milan, Hamburg, etc. If you start offering massive state subsidies on electric cars, the governments should damn well know there will be a huge drain on the electrical grid, there will be a need for more power plants, turbines, transmission lines, not to mention the need for more charging stations. So there is no free lunch IMO with full electric cars.
Honestly the future IMO is with plug in hybrids like the Volt. Use electricity on short trips, gas motor on long trips. It completely solves the utility/range anxiety/needing two cars problem of current electric cars.
09-12-17, 07:08 AM
#4
Pole Position
This isn't the days of Mao and hard-line Chinese Communism any more....the old men in Beijing can't just snap their fingers and have the entire country bend to their will. The Chinese public loves their cars (especially Buicks) ....and you're talking about a country with well over a billion people. Yes, the government can set a policy that leans towards electric vehicles...but good luck enforcing it.
....and you're talking about a country with well over a billion people. Yes, the government can set a policy that leans towards electric vehicles...but good luck enforcing it.
09-12-17, 11:33 AM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
Of course it is not a democracy, by any means....I never said otherwise. And yes, some people still wind up as political prisoners. But my point was that, once the better part of a billion people get a taste of the Western style of life (especially with nice cars...just look at the sales of Buick, Cadillac, Lexus, Audi, and Mercedes products in that country)...as a group, they aren't going to just sit on their rear ends and let the government take them back to the old Mao days of wearing state-issued gray work-suits and doing collective work on government farms. And to the subject of electric cars, whether in China or the U.S., government policies of not, if the public isn't willing to buy them, they simply aren't going to sell.
09-12-17, 01:07 PM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
If E-Cars take off anywhere it'll probably be China first. Not necessarily because the Govt demands the people to do so but because of the way their infrastructure is set it makes it more practical than here in the US. E-vehicles are already very popular in Chinese cities, E-Bikes, E-scooters, and small E-Cars too. It won't be as big a leap for them as it will be for us here. Just like how their mobile networks and platforms are more advanced than ours. It's because they don't have as much existing legacy infrastructure to upgrade that they can make the leap to the next gen quicker. As for long range travel between states or provinces people there now use the highly efficient bullet trains for that. Right now in China they have a new system of bike sharing where people can just take whatever bike they see in the street and bring it anywhere. The bikes are being tracked by GPS so maybe in the near future the Chinese might do a car sharing version of this. I can imagine walking out to the street and picking up any car and driving it the train station. Park it anywhere and when you get off the train grab any car in the street to drive it to the final destination. Then all your travels are charged to your account from your phone.
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09-12-17, 05:12 PM
#8
Lexus Champion
If E-Cars take off anywhere it'll probably be China first. Not necessarily because the Govt demands the people to do so but because of the way their infrastructure is set it makes it more practical than here in the US. E-vehicles are already very popular in Chinese cities, E-Bikes, E-scooters, and small E-Cars too. It won't be as big a leap for them as it will be for us here. Just like how their mobile networks and platforms are more advanced than ours. It's because they don't have as much existing legacy infrastructure to upgrade that they can make the leap to the next gen quicker. As for long range travel between states or provinces people there now use the highly efficient bullet trains for that. Right now in China they have a new system of bike sharing where people can just take whatever bike they see in the street and bring it anywhere. The bikes are being tracked by GPS so maybe in the near future the Chinese might do a car sharing version of this. I can imagine walking out to the street and picking up any car and driving it the train station. Park it anywhere and when you get off the train grab any car in the street to drive it to the final destination. Then all your travels are charged to your account from your phone.
The Chinese will buy the cars that are made available to them. If the government mandates that more EVs and hybrids, and fewer petroleum-fueled cars are sold, that is what the Chinese will buy. I have no doubt that the infrastructure will be available for the cars that are allowed to be driven; if the infrastructure is not available, the government will merely ration the fuel (petroleum or electricity), and/or merely limit when and how far a driver may drive.
As was said, building new infrastructure will be easier to do in China, for 2 main reasons. China has old infrastructure so it is much easier to remove the old, obsolete infrastructure, and replace with new, state-of-the-art infrastructure. East Asian countries also do not have the problem with NIMBYism (not-in-my-backyard) that North Americans do. Whereas it takes years (if not decades) to build new infrastructure in North America, due to all the people who will protest, there is no cultural habit of that in East Asia. In East Asia, if the government mandates that something is to be built, it will be built.
09-12-17, 05:52 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
And people who give donations/favors to political figures, entertainment figures who say the right things, foreign dignitaries who help politicians, high up gov. figures, very wealthy people who can pay the gov./political figures to get around the law that will be written so certain people can still buy and keep their expensive toys and lifestyles, just everyone else has to abide.
09-12-17, 06:41 PM
#10
Lexus Champion
I'm not surprised that China wants to do this. The country experiences some of the worst pollution you will see on the planet and the Chinese realize it's self-inflicted. That's the reason China is now a leader in solar and wind power. There is an astonishing pace to the growth of these renewable energy sources. They are building and adding Gigawatt scale power infrastructure so they can leave coal and natural gas behind.
The Hoover Dam is a 2 GW facility. The Chinese are adding 30 and 35 GW power plants to their infrastructure strictly on wind/solar. Going electric for automotive transportation isn't that far out of the possibilities for them.
The Hoover Dam is a 2 GW facility. The Chinese are adding 30 and 35 GW power plants to their infrastructure strictly on wind/solar. Going electric for automotive transportation isn't that far out of the possibilities for them.
09-13-17, 08:50 AM
#11
Pole Position
I'm not surprised that China wants to do this. The country experiences some of the worst pollution you will see on the planet and the Chinese realize it's self-inflicted. That's the reason China is now a leader in solar and wind power. There is an astonishing pace to the growth of these renewable energy sources. They are building and adding Gigawatt scale power infrastructure so they can leave coal and natural gas behind.
The Hoover Dam is a 2 GW facility. The Chinese are adding 30 and 35 GW power plants to their infrastructure strictly on wind/solar. Going electric for automotive transportation isn't that far out of the possibilities for them.
The Hoover Dam is a 2 GW facility. The Chinese are adding 30 and 35 GW power plants to their infrastructure strictly on wind/solar. Going electric for automotive transportation isn't that far out of the possibilities for them.
09-13-17, 08:51 AM
#12
Pole Position
Of course it is not a democracy, by any means....I never said otherwise. And yes, some people still wind up as political prisoners. But my point was that, once the better part of a billion people get a taste of the Western style of life (especially with nice cars...just look at the sales of Buick, Cadillac, Lexus, Audi, and Mercedes products in that country)...as a group, they aren't going to just sit on their rear ends and let the government take them back to the old Mao days of wearing state-issued gray work-suits and doing collective work on government farms. And to the subject of electric cars, whether in China or the U.S., government policies of not, if the public isn't willing to buy them, they simply aren't going to sell.
09-13-17, 12:12 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
That was also almost three decades ago. China has seen numerous changes since then.....primarily from a Communist to a Capitalist culture, though, of course, it is still not a democracy as we know it.
