Dodge needs the "Hellcat" and "Helltrail" Ram . . .
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,592
Likes: 31
From: TN
Dodge needs the "Hellcat" and "Helltrail" Ram . . .
Anybody else think there is a need for an uber Ram 1/2 ton truck??? About 60-75k MSRP to go head to head with the Raptor??? But put that 707hp Hellcat engine under the hood, make the 2wd version kind of a lowered sport truck, but still offer it in the 4 door crew cab version, with a trailer hitch and a tow rating. Offer the 4wd version as a lifted, ultra capable desert runner in the same vain as the Raptor, same supsension technology, similar wheel/tire package, but with that 707hp supercharged Hellcat engine. But once again make it nice, able to tow a load, haul your friends around, that it will still do truck stuff.
The F150 Raptor is fast, looks macho, but still does truck stuff. This is the 21st century sport truck, it does truck stuff, but amped up a level. Things like the reg cab GMC Syclone, 454SS, Ford Lightning, the early 2000's Silverado SS, the mid 00's Viper V10 Ram SRT-10, well they just didn't sell because they sucked at doing "truck stuff", which is towing, hauling people, and going off road. If Dodge is going to do a new "Ram Hellcat", it needs to do truck stuff just as well as it hauls ***.
The F150 Raptor is fast, looks macho, but still does truck stuff. This is the 21st century sport truck, it does truck stuff, but amped up a level. Things like the reg cab GMC Syclone, 454SS, Ford Lightning, the early 2000's Silverado SS, the mid 00's Viper V10 Ram SRT-10, well they just didn't sell because they sucked at doing "truck stuff", which is towing, hauling people, and going off road. If Dodge is going to do a new "Ram Hellcat", it needs to do truck stuff just as well as it hauls ***.
Rookie
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 50
Likes: 2
From: San Diego
Much of the raptor's capability comes from its suspension and that sort of thing takes a decent amount of r&d. Or a decent amount of money thrown at partnering vendors.
Dropping a Hellcat motor into a Ram is not going to net the same results. Based on what they want to charge for hellcat motored cars, it's going to be closer to 100k to get a Ram that is truly competitive with the Raptor in all respects. Unless of course we are just talking about a hellcat motor deathtrap with close to stock base model ram suspension with very little grip ( empty truck bed and weight distribution toward front), engineered to a price point.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,099
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From: Tx
It isn't the why, rather it is the why not =)
FCA is struggling with Jeep being the cash cow and Ram truck sales keeping them afloat. I think mmarshall or someone brought up FCA brands make up the bottom four or five of reliability tests (even the Alfa brand is struggling mightily in the US with under 2,500 deliveries YTD). They need some big ticket home runs and the "Raptor-fighter" Ram Rebel has been met with middling reviews (too much supply, too little differentiation). I'm one to say why not; they don't have to sell a ton of these, just build some hype, limit production, drive demand, just give the market something more than a "standard" Hemi.
FCA is struggling with Jeep being the cash cow and Ram truck sales keeping them afloat. I think mmarshall or someone brought up FCA brands make up the bottom four or five of reliability tests (even the Alfa brand is struggling mightily in the US with under 2,500 deliveries YTD). They need some big ticket home runs and the "Raptor-fighter" Ram Rebel has been met with middling reviews (too much supply, too little differentiation). I'm one to say why not; they don't have to sell a ton of these, just build some hype, limit production, drive demand, just give the market something more than a "standard" Hemi.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Like Bugattis making over 1000 HP? 
It's common knowledge, not necessarily anything I posted. Many FCA products, in general, are at or near the bottom of both Consumer Reports and J.D. Power reliability listings, though individual sample-vehicles can give good service, as some owners right here on Car Chat have experienced.
Technically, the current 6.2L SRT Hemi is already more than the "standard" 5.7L Hemi, both in size and power.
I think mmarshall or someone brought up FCA brands make up the bottom four or five of reliability tests
I'm one to say why not; they don't have to sell a ton of these, just build some hype, limit production, drive demand, just give the market something more than a "standard" Hemi.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,489
Likes: 386
From: ON/NY
Saw a commercial last night. The RAM is currently offered with a 25% discount off MSRP. Works out to a 18K discount. I think Dodge has bigger issues than offering a HellRam or Trail or whatever you want to call it.
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,592
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From: TN
Well its been proven that there is a market for expensive pickup trucks, and the Raptor has been a huge hit for Ford because it offers more than just fancy leather and all that gingerbread that everybody else is selling.
I mean look at my local Ford dealer, they have several aftermarket lifted bro trucks for sale, aftermarket wheels, aftermarket lift kit. Stuff like this is what the OEM needs to be making, clearly there is a demand for it(with huge markup of course), Ford seems to be the only OEM interested in catering to this crowd.
https://www.fordofmurfreesboro.com/s...x?tags=Tuscany
I mean look at my local Ford dealer, they have several aftermarket lifted bro trucks for sale, aftermarket wheels, aftermarket lift kit. Stuff like this is what the OEM needs to be making, clearly there is a demand for it(with huge markup of course), Ford seems to be the only OEM interested in catering to this crowd.
https://www.fordofmurfreesboro.com/s...x?tags=Tuscany
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I like this idea of a Dodge/Ram Hellcat and Helltrail. There has been a history of sporty and capable trucks (Aron9000 mentions them in the first post). Ford's success is likely the beginning of another spike in demand for trucks like the Raptor. When Ford releases the Bronco again in a few years, I would be surprised to see another Blazer from Chevy. Trucks are still the bread winners for the big Three, and have good profit margins.
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Brett Foote
Out of Warranty
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,925
Likes: 13
From: Houston, Republic of Texas
The trouble with putting big motors in pickups is weight distribution. Plant your right foot hard and the lightweight back end wants to take the lead. As a driver, you're working for the opposition, trying to keep the little wheels in front. In this unequal contest traction control either strangles the engine or burns the rear brakes. In a truck, balance is the key to performance . . . either that or large amounts of self restraint for your throttle foot.
If your youthful enthusiasm still gets the best of you, you can carry a half-yard of sand around in the bed . . . which creates its own issues . . . .
If your youthful enthusiasm still gets the best of you, you can carry a half-yard of sand around in the bed . . . which creates its own issues . . . .
Out of Warranty
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,925
Likes: 13
From: Houston, Republic of Texas
^^ You forget the testosterone-soaked demographic that these rare and expensive vehicles are sold into. The more flagrant the drama, the better. For all but a tiny percent, their largest volume sale will be in posters to teenage boys bedrooms. In my day it was Farrah Fawcett, but that would probably get today's youngster's committed to a sex-crimes rehab center. So far, not a problem for the Dodge Boys . . . but worth following. 
Racer
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,387
Likes: 349
From: ON
I guess it depends on what kind of truck stuff you want to do. With a race prepped Lighting it was easy to toss stuff in the back, slap a trailer on the back and away you go. It was a blast, one of the more "fun" vehicles I have owned. Trucks are big $$$ for manufacturers and with Dodge if they already have the motor...why not!
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,592
Likes: 31
From: TN
The trouble with putting big motors in pickups is weight distribution. Plant your right foot hard and the lightweight back end wants to take the lead. As a driver, you're working for the opposition, trying to keep the little wheels in front. In this unequal contest traction control either strangles the engine or burns the rear brakes. In a truck, balance is the key to performance . . . either that or large amounts of self restraint for your throttle foot.
If your youthful enthusiasm still gets the best of you, you can carry a half-yard of sand around in the bed . . . which creates its own issues . . . .
If your youthful enthusiasm still gets the best of you, you can carry a half-yard of sand around in the bed . . . which creates its own issues . . . .
Expectations for stuff like "balance, quick turn in, handling finesse" should obviously be different for a 5500lb truck, even a sport truck.
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,592
Likes: 31
From: TN
Really I just think it would be hilarious if Dodge built a pickup truck that was faster than a Camaro SS or Mustang GT in the quarter mile. Hell I bet if they tried, ie reg cab/short box for light weight, big sticky tires, they might have a truck that would crack a sub 12 second et. I know I said that wouldn't sell, but it would be cool if they offered it along with the crew cab.
It really wouldn't be that hard for Dodge to make a 2wd Hellcat truck, they have all the parts, just throw that drivetrain into a pickup body. Doing something like the Raptor would be a bit trickier, as Ford spent some serious R&D money on the suspension/chassis in that truck. Heck, the new 2017 Raptor even runs a different frame vs regular F150's, that shows you how much they've sweated over the supsension/chassis setup in the Raptor.
