2019 Toyota Supra
01-02-19, 10:42 AM
#407
The rear seats in my MKIV are kind of useless maybe ok for small kids but would need car seats. I agree everyone and their mother will be trying to race these once they are out lol which I think will push the aftermarket to bump power up quick. I'm sure we will be seeing 500rwhp ones within 6 months of release.
01-02-19, 11:26 AM
#408
Lexus Test Driver
This A90 Supra will probably see a decent sale in the first year from hype but will die off and get cancelled. Its a tough sell for Toyota. Toyota loyalist wouldn't buy it because its BMW. BMW loyalist wouldn't buy it because its a Toyota. For regular enthusiast, this begs the question: why buy this A90 Supra when you can get a BMW M2 Comp with a better engine and 6Sp MT for about the same price or less (depending on the Supra options). The BMW M2 is likely a better driver's car as well.
Toyota should have not outsourced their sports car.
01-02-19, 11:31 AM
#409
I have been saying this since the BMW engine and price rumors were pretty much confirmed.
This A90 Supra will probably see a decent sale in the first year from hype but will die off and get cancelled. Its a tough sell for Toyota. Toyota loyalist wouldn't buy it because its BMW. BMW loyalist wouldn't buy it because its a Toyota. For regular enthusiast, this begs the question: why buy this A90 Supra when you can get a BMW M2 Comp with a better engine and 6Sp MT for about the same price or less (depending on the Supra options). The BMW M2 is likely a better driver's car as well.
Toyota should have not outsourced their sports car.
This A90 Supra will probably see a decent sale in the first year from hype but will die off and get cancelled. Its a tough sell for Toyota. Toyota loyalist wouldn't buy it because its BMW. BMW loyalist wouldn't buy it because its a Toyota. For regular enthusiast, this begs the question: why buy this A90 Supra when you can get a BMW M2 Comp with a better engine and 6Sp MT for about the same price or less (depending on the Supra options). The BMW M2 is likely a better driver's car as well.
Toyota should have not outsourced their sports car.
But I do agree with you on who exactly Toyota is marketing to this car to, really hard to tell. For some reason I could see a few RC-F folks jumping ship
01-02-19, 11:47 AM
#410
Lexus Test Driver
Toyota should have just made their own Supra. Toyota could have totally ripped the TTV6 from the LS500, up the power, and made the Supra a GT-R killer.
Maybe... I think RC-F owners would probably hold strong for the most part or wait for the hardcore RC-F that is coming out soon. Either that or the LC-F.
01-02-19, 12:02 PM
#411
Lexus Test Driver
I had hopes for this Supra by reading all the false rumors of it having unique tuning, Iron bloc, Yamaha involvement etc.
In the end - we are getting a B58 engine that will be detuned most likely compared to Z4 M40i US version and upcoming M340i. No manual at launch or even a solid plan to offer one. Pricing at around $60k +
You would need to be the biggest Toyota loyalist to buy this thing over a M2 Competition which has better engine, brakes, transmission, cooling, seats 4 and has a trunk!
In the end - we are getting a B58 engine that will be detuned most likely compared to Z4 M40i US version and upcoming M340i. No manual at launch or even a solid plan to offer one. Pricing at around $60k +
You would need to be the biggest Toyota loyalist to buy this thing over a M2 Competition which has better engine, brakes, transmission, cooling, seats 4 and has a trunk!
01-02-19, 01:38 PM
#412
Lexus Champion
The M2 Competition is no doubt about it, a spectacular little sports coupe with blazing performance. It substituted for the old 3 when that line of cars got soft. The M2 though also starts at $60K - you'll want to load it up and get the $67K version. That said, this new Supra is going to have to watch its pricing very carefully because if it tops $60K, then it will be in trouble. The Z4 will likely be $75K loaded up.
What is Toyota's ace card for this car, then? More Toyota reliability and engineering and better possible resale down the road? Maybe. This car was co-developed with BMW, so it was a partnership. Toyota had to have a say in how much Munich was in the Supra vs how much Toyota. If prospective buyers think that Toyota put more of its stamp on the Supra from a reliability standpoint, it might make a difference.
What is Toyota's ace card for this car, then? More Toyota reliability and engineering and better possible resale down the road? Maybe. This car was co-developed with BMW, so it was a partnership. Toyota had to have a say in how much Munich was in the Supra vs how much Toyota. If prospective buyers think that Toyota put more of its stamp on the Supra from a reliability standpoint, it might make a difference.
01-02-19, 01:51 PM
#413
The M2 Competition is no doubt about it, a spectacular little sports coupe with blazing performance. It substituted for the old 3 when that line of cars got soft. The M2 though also starts at $60K - you'll want to load it up and get the $67K version. That said, this new Supra is going to have to watch its pricing very carefully because if it tops $60K, then it will be in trouble. The Z4 will likely be $75K loaded up.
What is Toyota's ace card for this car, then? More Toyota reliability and engineering and better possible resale down the road? Maybe. This car was co-developed with BMW, so it was a partnership. Toyota had to have a say in how much Munich was in the Supra vs how much Toyota. If prospective buyers think that Toyota put more of its stamp on the Supra from a reliability standpoint, it might make a difference.
What is Toyota's ace card for this car, then? More Toyota reliability and engineering and better possible resale down the road? Maybe. This car was co-developed with BMW, so it was a partnership. Toyota had to have a say in how much Munich was in the Supra vs how much Toyota. If prospective buyers think that Toyota put more of its stamp on the Supra from a reliability standpoint, it might make a difference.
01-02-19, 02:44 PM
#414
Lexus Test Driver
The M2 Competition is no doubt about it, a spectacular little sports coupe with blazing performance. It substituted for the old 3 when that line of cars got soft. The M2 though also starts at $60K - you'll want to load it up and get the $67K version. That said, this new Supra is going to have to watch its pricing very carefully because if it tops $60K, then it will be in trouble. The Z4 will likely be $75K loaded up.
What is Toyota's ace card for this car, then? More Toyota reliability and engineering and better possible resale down the road? Maybe. This car was co-developed with BMW, so it was a partnership. Toyota had to have a say in how much Munich was in the Supra vs how much Toyota. If prospective buyers think that Toyota put more of its stamp on the Supra from a reliability standpoint, it might make a difference.
What is Toyota's ace card for this car, then? More Toyota reliability and engineering and better possible resale down the road? Maybe. This car was co-developed with BMW, so it was a partnership. Toyota had to have a say in how much Munich was in the Supra vs how much Toyota. If prospective buyers think that Toyota put more of its stamp on the Supra from a reliability standpoint, it might make a difference.
Executive Pack is $1,200 but is not really needed imo bec its just adaptive LEDs and heated steering wheel.
DCT is $2,900
6MT is FREE
So basically you can have amazing car for $60k
Toyota from everything that we have learned only played with tuning of engine/trans and suspension setup. All the physical hardware is identical pretty much to the Z4.
If anything based on the preliminary reviews the Z4 M40i version was setup more aggressively of the 2.
If the Supra comes out with less HP than Z4 - it will be total flop!
Last edited by RNM GS3; 01-02-19 at 02:57 PM.
01-02-19, 03:01 PM
#415
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by RNMGS3
There is nothing really to add except Metallic paint for $550.
Executive Pack is $2,500 I believe but is not really needed imo.
DCT is $2,900
6MT is FREE
So basically you can have amazing car for $60k
Executive Pack is $2,500 I believe but is not really needed imo.
DCT is $2,900
6MT is FREE
So basically you can have amazing car for $60k
Originally Posted by Hoovey2411
Toyota is not manufacturing the Supra though, Magna Steyr in Graz, Austria will be.
But I was speaking about upstream development in the partnership with BMW, not manufacturiing site or assembly quality.
01-02-19, 03:04 PM
#416
Lexus Test Driver
$64K at best. The vast majority of Bimmer buyers don't opt for six speed manual transmission. Get the exec pack for $1200 and the DCT for $2900. $4200 on top of base + $995 destination. You can't order the options in the exec pack seperately. You have to get it for things like Wifi hotspot/charging, full adaptive led headlights, heated steering etc.
Doesn't make much difference where it's made. MB G wagens are made there and so are Jaguar I Pace/E Pace. Bimmers aren't known for problems with drivetrain/suspension anyways. You can build any car to specs and this Supra will be built alongside the Z4.
But I was speaking about upstream development in the partnership with BMW, not manufacturiing site or assembly quality.
Doesn't make much difference where it's made. MB G wagens are made there and so are Jaguar I Pace/E Pace. Bimmers aren't known for problems with drivetrain/suspension anyways. You can build any car to specs and this Supra will be built alongside the Z4.
But I was speaking about upstream development in the partnership with BMW, not manufacturiing site or assembly quality.
M3/4 manual take rates are about 30-35%.
Outside of the US - manuals are about 1%
Last edited by RNM GS3; 01-02-19 at 03:10 PM.
01-02-19, 03:23 PM
#417
There is nothing really to add except Metallic paint for $550.
Executive Pack is $1,200 but is not really needed imo bec its just adaptive LEDs and heated steering wheel.
DCT is $2,900
6MT is FREE
So basically you can have amazing car for $60k
Toyota from everything that we have learned only played with tuning of engine/trans and suspension setup. All the physical hardware is identical pretty much to the Z4.
If anything based on the preliminary reviews the Z4 M40i version was setup more aggressively of the 2.
If the Supra comes out with less HP than Z4 - it will be total flop!
01-02-19, 04:25 PM
#418
Lexus Test Driver
I had hopes for this Supra by reading all the false rumors of it having unique tuning, Iron bloc, Yamaha involvement etc.
In the end - we are getting a B58 engine that will be detuned most likely compared to Z4 M40i US version and upcoming M340i. No manual at launch or even a solid plan to offer one. Pricing at around $60k +
You would need to be the biggest Toyota loyalist to buy this thing over a M2 Competition which has better engine, brakes, transmission, cooling, seats 4 and has a trunk!
In the end - we are getting a B58 engine that will be detuned most likely compared to Z4 M40i US version and upcoming M340i. No manual at launch or even a solid plan to offer one. Pricing at around $60k +
You would need to be the biggest Toyota loyalist to buy this thing over a M2 Competition which has better engine, brakes, transmission, cooling, seats 4 and has a trunk!
They mine as well call it the BMW Supra because it doesn't have any Toyota feel to it. Its literally a 2 Seater M340i. If you listen to the exhaust note, it sounds like a BMW. Its so confusing on how this car is going to target buyers.
The M2 Competition is no doubt about it, a spectacular little sports coupe with blazing performance. It substituted for the old 3 when that line of cars got soft. The M2 though also starts at $60K - you'll want to load it up and get the $67K version. That said, this new Supra is going to have to watch its pricing very carefully because if it tops $60K, then it will be in trouble. The Z4 will likely be $75K loaded up.
What is Toyota's ace card for this car, then? More Toyota reliability and engineering and better possible resale down the road? Maybe. This car was co-developed with BMW, so it was a partnership. Toyota had to have a say in how much Munich was in the Supra vs how much Toyota. If prospective buyers think that Toyota put more of its stamp on the Supra from a reliability standpoint, it might make a difference.
What is Toyota's ace card for this car, then? More Toyota reliability and engineering and better possible resale down the road? Maybe. This car was co-developed with BMW, so it was a partnership. Toyota had to have a say in how much Munich was in the Supra vs how much Toyota. If prospective buyers think that Toyota put more of its stamp on the Supra from a reliability standpoint, it might make a difference.
Majority of people will spend about 60.2K on the BMW M2, which includes the executive package and the color. When you have a BMW M2 costing 60.2K and a Toyota Supra costing 60K, that's a price conflict. Who would buy a BMW sourced Toyota Supra then? The problem here is the BMW-sourced Supra. If the Toyota Supra was its own thing rather than 99% BMW, it'll sell on the fact that its a Toyota Sports car. The issue here is that the Toyota Supra is pretty much a hard-top BMW Z4 or a 2 Seater BMW M340i.
Sure. Toyota did have a say and they didn't say much. The A90 Toyota Supra is already confirmed to have a BMW Engine, BMW Transmission, BMW Chassis, BMW interior/switches, and its also using the iDrive as well. On top of that - it will be made with the same contracting company and factory as the new Z4. Literally - the only thing Toyota about the Supra is the badge and tune. Other that - its 99% BMW.
I love Toyota - its my favorite brand. It annoys me to no end that Toyota made the Supra a BMW. If I wanted a BMW, I'll buy a BMW.
01-02-19, 04:31 PM
#419
I had hopes for this Supra by reading all the false rumors of it having unique tuning, Iron bloc, Yamaha involvement etc.
In the end - we are getting a B58 engine that will be detuned most likely compared to Z4 M40i US version and upcoming M340i. No manual at launch or even a solid plan to offer one. Pricing at around $60k +
You would need to be the biggest Toyota loyalist to buy this thing over a M2 Competition which has better engine, brakes, transmission, cooling, seats 4 and has a trunk!
In the end - we are getting a B58 engine that will be detuned most likely compared to Z4 M40i US version and upcoming M340i. No manual at launch or even a solid plan to offer one. Pricing at around $60k +
You would need to be the biggest Toyota loyalist to buy this thing over a M2 Competition which has better engine, brakes, transmission, cooling, seats 4 and has a trunk!
01-02-19, 04:40 PM
#420
Lexus Test Driver
https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/10/10/e...in-march-2020/
Further down the line - there is even rumors of a BMW M2 CSL. There will be tons of BMW M2 amazing-ness coming.