2018 BMW 530e Test Drive
05-16-17, 08:40 PM
#46
Lexus Champion
I'd venture to say most people have a poor opinion of electric assist steering based on when it first came out, yes it can feel disconnected from the car but so can a hydraulic system. On the BRZ it works just right Toyota/Subaru did a great job a big part of this is likely they designed the software around the suspension and chassis. From what I've read Porsche also does electric steering really well I have not experience it myself.
05-17-17, 06:00 AM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I also think a lot of the critics of electric steering versus hydraulic are just saying it for the sake of saying it. The majority of people do not want too much steering feel, you would think car manufactures would know this about their customer. I think some just read what the enthusiasts are saying and then just copy and complain.
05-17-17, 06:08 AM
#50
Lexus Fanatic
Have you test-driven one of the last-generation BMW's before they converted? The way they engineered their hydraulic power-steering systems was not simply a figment of one's imagination, or of copy-catting someone else's reviews, but reality in every sense of the word. I'm not saying BMWs were necessarily the car for me (there were also some features I didn't like, especially with many of the dealerships)....but there was no doubt that those former BMWs excelled in much of what they did.
05-17-17, 06:12 AM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
It doesn't really bother me because of the sort of cars I drive, but even I can tell the difference in my LSs. My older ones actually had lighter steering, the 460 is heavier but dead in a way that it wasn't in the older hydraulic ones.
Manufacturers aren't going to electric power steering for the numb feel lol. The numb feel is a side effect that they're betting consumers won't mind, and for the most part they don't. There are tons of reason why electric power steering is better, it's cheaper to build and maintain, less moving parts, it's more efficient, and when it comes to automated driving features it's a must. That last one I suspect is a huge part of it.
Manufacturers aren't going to electric power steering for the numb feel lol. The numb feel is a side effect that they're betting consumers won't mind, and for the most part they don't. There are tons of reason why electric power steering is better, it's cheaper to build and maintain, less moving parts, it's more efficient, and when it comes to automated driving features it's a must. That last one I suspect is a huge part of it.
05-17-17, 06:24 AM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
Have you test-driven one of the last-generation BMW's before they converted? The way they engineered their hydraulic power-steering systems was not simply a figment of one's imagination, or of copy-catting someone else's reviews, but reality in every sense of the word. I'm not saying BMWs were necessarily the car for me (there were also some features I didn't like, especially with many of the dealerships)....but there was no doubt that those former BMWs excelled in much of what they did.
Anyway, many complained the steering had gotten lighter, and BMW retrofitted racks for anyone who wanted it. The car company was truly great back then, and there was a real reason why they made the 10 Best list (I call it the 8 best, 3 Series and Accord were permanent members) for 23 straight years. They have really fallen by the wayside, unfortunately, thing is, I don't think Audi or MB ever caught up, they've done the same....I'm referring to that entry level true sports car niche (like a 2007 328i manual sedan that was around $33k and change)....
05-17-17, 06:26 AM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Like I said earlier, living in the past vs what customers wants and what they want is what BMW is ultimately trying to do. Here is an article from Car And Driver and a BMW guy.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/steer-m...steering-feel/
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
“My personal opinion is, we’re providing enough feedback to our mainstream customers. Some drive 30,000 miles per year in their BMWs, including long trips at high speeds. So the strongest demand we heard was, ‘Please reduce the steering effort.’ They seem to want more isolation.”
http://blog.caranddriver.com/steer-m...steering-feel/
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
“My personal opinion is, we’re providing enough feedback to our mainstream customers. Some drive 30,000 miles per year in their BMWs, including long trips at high speeds. So the strongest demand we heard was, ‘Please reduce the steering effort.’ They seem to want more isolation.”
05-17-17, 06:52 AM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
For the most part my 4th gen Maxima had decent reviews for its time, it made the 10 Best list in 1995 as a new model. However, one of its criticisms besides the beam axle which was cost cutting, was the light steering.
If you stack a 2016 328i x drive (I was given one for 4 1/2 mos.) to the 1998 Maxima, the Maxima's steering is heavy (it's actually quite light, it's like calling a person 5'10" tall). The 2007 335i would basically be undriveable, and it is, when a 16 y.o. gets it from a parent, because the steering is so heavy.
My personal opinion is we are not living in the past when we prefer the way it was. I think on the 3rd gen LS forum, this topic led to vinyl records vs. mp3s or something like that lol
If you stack a 2016 328i x drive (I was given one for 4 1/2 mos.) to the 1998 Maxima, the Maxima's steering is heavy (it's actually quite light, it's like calling a person 5'10" tall). The 2007 335i would basically be undriveable, and it is, when a 16 y.o. gets it from a parent, because the steering is so heavy.
My personal opinion is we are not living in the past when we prefer the way it was. I think on the 3rd gen LS forum, this topic led to vinyl records vs. mp3s or something like that lol
05-17-17, 07:05 AM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
For the most part my 4th gen Maxima had decent reviews for its time, it made the 10 Best list in 1995 as a new model. However, one of its criticisms besides the beam axle which was cost cutting, was the light steering.
If you stack a 2016 328i x drive (I was given one for 4 1/2 mos.) to the 1998 Maxima, the Maxima's steering is heavy (it's actually quite light, it's like calling a person 5'10" tall). The 2007 335i would basically be undriveable, and it is, when a 16 y.o. gets it from a parent, because the steering is so heavy.
My personal opinion is we are not living in the past when we prefer the way it was. I think on the 3rd gen LS forum, this topic led to vinyl records vs. mp3s or something like that lol
If you stack a 2016 328i x drive (I was given one for 4 1/2 mos.) to the 1998 Maxima, the Maxima's steering is heavy (it's actually quite light, it's like calling a person 5'10" tall). The 2007 335i would basically be undriveable, and it is, when a 16 y.o. gets it from a parent, because the steering is so heavy.
My personal opinion is we are not living in the past when we prefer the way it was. I think on the 3rd gen LS forum, this topic led to vinyl records vs. mp3s or something like that lol
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 05-17-17 at 07:47 AM.
05-17-17, 07:07 AM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
I think you have to understand though that progress happens, and although some aspects of the old way of doing things were better, progress marches ever forward and new technologies open up more options for the future. For instance, you can't put 4,000 songs on vinyl records on your phone and play them whenever and wherever you want lol. Does vinyl sound better? Do CDs sound better? Yes. But the convenience trumps the quality. I listen to Satellite radio and some people say "the quality is so bad blah blah" well, I can listen to one radio station on a 300 mile trip, I have much greater variety of content. Trade offs.
To use the 3rd Gen LS folks. 4.3L V8 vs 4.6L V8. They complain the 460 engine is louder at idle and not quite as smooth. They're right. But, it gets 100 more HP while providing better fuel economy, that's the direct injection tick, and you don't have to replace timing belts at $1000 a pop every 90k miles, that's the timing chain noise. Technology at work, there are negative side effects but excellent positive ones also.
Same is true of electric power steering. Hydraulic steering overall has better feel, BUT, more expensive to produce and maintain, more prone to failure, and the electric setup allows programmable assist for driving modes, more variety in assist depending on situations, more efficiency with less fuel consumption and autonomous driving. Trade offs.
To use the 3rd Gen LS folks. 4.3L V8 vs 4.6L V8. They complain the 460 engine is louder at idle and not quite as smooth. They're right. But, it gets 100 more HP while providing better fuel economy, that's the direct injection tick, and you don't have to replace timing belts at $1000 a pop every 90k miles, that's the timing chain noise. Technology at work, there are negative side effects but excellent positive ones also.
Same is true of electric power steering. Hydraulic steering overall has better feel, BUT, more expensive to produce and maintain, more prone to failure, and the electric setup allows programmable assist for driving modes, more variety in assist depending on situations, more efficiency with less fuel consumption and autonomous driving. Trade offs.
05-17-17, 08:11 AM
#57
Like I said earlier, living in the past vs what customers wants and what they want is what BMW is ultimately trying to do. Here is an article from Car And Driver and a BMW guy.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/steer-m...steering-feel/
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
“My personal opinion is, we’re providing enough feedback to our mainstream customers. Some drive 30,000 miles per year in their BMWs, including long trips at high speeds. So the strongest demand we heard was, ‘Please reduce the steering effort.’ They seem to want more isolation.”
http://blog.caranddriver.com/steer-m...steering-feel/
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
“My personal opinion is, we’re providing enough feedback to our mainstream customers. Some drive 30,000 miles per year in their BMWs, including long trips at high speeds. So the strongest demand we heard was, ‘Please reduce the steering effort.’ They seem to want more isolation.”
05-17-17, 09:02 AM
#58
Lexus Fanatic
05-17-17, 09:14 AM
#59
The M5 hasn't been the same car in a long time. You could see the writing on the wall on that one. Rumor has it the next M3/4 will be AWD as well. The good thing is that you can switch from full time RWD to AWD through the iDrive. My concern is the weight added and the fact that it's an automatic! I've had both the ZF8 and the DCT and I much prefer the snappiness of the DCT.
05-17-17, 09:34 AM
#60
Lexus Fanatic
The M5 hasn't been the same car in a long time. You could see the writing on the wall on that one. Rumor has it the next M3/4 will be AWD as well. The good thing is that you can switch from full time RWD to AWD through the iDrive. My concern is the weight added and the fact that it's an automatic! I've had both the ZF8 and the DCT and I much prefer the snappiness of the DCT.