SW17LS

Damn kids lol

mmarshall

I personally don't see where that should make a huge difference in re-sale value. No matter what you call it (or re-name it), in many cases, it is still the same vehicle under the skin. Of course, in our case, that may also be looking at it from our own auto-enthusiast point of view. We generally keep up with the auto market, and usually know what is under the skin.......I'll admit that a lot of people don't.

LeX2K

BRZ et al.

SW17LS

Haven't driven one, but I have driven a MX-5 Miata with electric steering which was also numb. If BMW hasn't found a way to get the same feel as you have in a hydraulic vehicle, I don't think Toyota/Subaru has.

mmarshall

Makes you wonder, sometimes, what a pair of wire-snips, de-activating the electric-steering motor, would do to steering feel. It might, of course, make it TOO heavy. That happened, once, on my old 1967 Chrysler, when the power-steering drive-belt snapped. Only my young age (20) and strong arm-strength managed to get the car to the nearest repair shop....Hulk Hogan would probably have had trouble steering it.

LeX2K

You said no one found a way around the "numb" feel of an electric steering rack, now your standard is making it feel the same as a hydraulic one? Either way you're wrong Toyota/Subaru nailed it steering feel is damn near perfect.

ragingf80

I wonder if BMW can license the steering systems of the BRZ/FR-S.

SW17LS

I don't think theres any argument that the "gold standard" for steering feel is the feel of a good hydraulic setup. In BMWs the steering feel buyers are missing is the feel of their old excellent hydraulic setups. If thats not what one wants their steering to feel like, I'm not sure what you would shoot for.

Sounds like I need to drive a BRZ, but I'm skeptical...especially since you seem to say it doesn't feel like a hydraulic setup, yet is "damn near perfect". What I want is it to feel like a hydraulic setup so if it doesn't I doubt I'm going to think its perfect lol

Sulu

Just buy from the same supplier that provided the electric power steering system for the BRZ/FR-S. Then there is still the problem of tuning it with the right values in software. That has to be done; it is not difficult but it is tedious.

Sulu

Give it time and electric power steering systems will improve, just like hydraulic power steering systems improved. Not that long ago (well, some of us are old enough to remember like it was yesterday), there were absolutely terrible hydraulic power steering systems.

At one time, there were 2 Toyotas in my parents' driveway -- a first-generation Camry LE and a fifth-generation (the first FWD) Corolla base sedan, both bought new (so the Camry was a few years older). The Camry had power steering; the Corolla did not. Once I started driving my Corolla, I could not drive my parents' Camry because of the over-boosted, no-feedback, pinky-finger steering. The Camry had a tendency to wander so it was quite tiring to drive, especially on the highway; the Corolla, in comparison, was rock-solid.

Years later, I had a tenth-generation Corolla, with an early electric power steering system. It too had over-boosted power steering; it too wandered on the highway. I could not drive it with only 1 hand. My parents now drive an eleventh-generation Corolla. Although I have not driven it on the highway, the steering seems to be much improved.

RNM GS3

The BRZ steering is PERFECT and far superior to the M3 for feel and how quick it is.

I think when automakers like BMW went with Comfort Sport etc, it ruined everything.
No sport mode on BRZ for steering lol.
I loved my steering on my E92 335i, the best of any car I owned.

Current M3 - i drive it in Sport setting for steering but feel on center is lacking and def not as quick or direct as my BRZ.
Its still very good and probably better than most modern sports cars imo just not as magical like the old hydraulic system. I like heavy steering but with feel, the M3 is almost there, def still heavy like before but you can feel disconnected in certain times.

SW17LS

Coming from you that something I wouldn't take lightly. I'll drive one.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I don't know if the old hydraulic system is as good as many people claim it to be. I also had E92 335, and I thought it's steering was way too heavy at low speeds and much too jerky and sensitive at high speeds. On the other had I absolutely love electric steering in my m235i - its better than any car I've ever driven.

RNM GS3

Well they changed it bec you represent the general public sentiment hence you want number steering.

The old setups were heavy but never felt artificial and yes the steering would move (road feel) so you pay attention and be more involved in whats happening.
Now everything is muted out......

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well, not all BMWs hydraulic systems are as direct as the E92. For instance My 2012 X5 and 2015 X1 have hydraulic steering (AFAIK), and they are both very numb and certainly not "magical" at all. Just average, which probably has a lot to with them being AWD. My 2017 X6M has electric steering, and while its not very lively its probably as good as steering can get for such a heavy vehicle. I've also driven a bunch of BMW loaners with electric steering and AWD, and with exception of X4 m40i they all drove like Camrys.

That said, there is still a mechanical link in both hydraulic and electric systems, so its very much possible to make a hydraulic system feel very disconnected and make electric system very direct. I certainly don't think that my m235 steering feels artificial or numb - it's very lively and responsive, with just the right amount of weight and feedback for me, at ANY speed.