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LS vs 560SEL - which is more classic?

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Old 03-26-17, 09:05 AM
  #31  
Och
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Originally Posted by Aron9000
I'd argue that cars haven't changed all that much exterior style wise in the past 15 years or so. Go back to the 1990's, there was a revolution in what cars looked like from one model generation to the next. I mean look at a 1990 Buick Park Ave vs a 1991 Buick Park Ave, holy crap. Just to use that as an extreme example.



Both of these looked hideous to me even when they were new.
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Old 03-26-17, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Och
Both of these looked hideous to me even when they were new.
He's not saying they weren't hideous, he's using them as an example of how different styling trends were just within a couple of years as to why cars looked dated more quickly, and he's right.
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Old 03-27-17, 09:43 AM
  #33  
jrmckinley
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Originally Posted by cmk1
The W126 being the older design and the pinnacle of not only '80s Mercedes-Benz, but of the 1980's global luxury marketplace, would win over the LS 400.


From the day in 1983 when MB finalized styling changes to the mid-cycle facelift W126 due for the 1986 model year, I don't believe that MB designers ever touched that car again (save for 1989 MY interior updates) and focused 100% on the W140 from 1983 to 1992, which got final approval on December 9, 1986.


The LS 400 by comparison also traces its design back to 1986 (like W140), while the overall shape of the W126 even dates back to December 1975 (1983 for MMC). The 1990 LS previewed some visual improvements in aerodynamics over the W126, that MB had already even taken with the incoming and delayed W140.

W126 S-Class Design Approval, December 1975

Toyota F-1 Clay Model September 1986 W140 Design Approval; December 9, 1986





The photo you provided though, isn't quite what was sold stateside, as the European-spec LS 400 had some minor differences in extras over the North American market versions and looked "thicker" in some cases.

1989-1992 LS 400 U.S. Specification

1990 560 SEL U.S. Specification


Even so, the idea that the new LS will not "age gracefully" is very much a subjective point and still cannot be proven.


Thus, I do not see where the XF10 and W126 come into this discussion.


We have yet to even see the W222 facelift fully unclothed, which is not to many people's taste.


The new LS was designed to make a strong statement, the same way the W222 was and evoke that of both the Maybach 57 and English ultra-luxury products.



Hmm, that is not a "1991 S Class". It's still a W140 and of the same generation that went into production in April 1991, but that is not what MB even offered for sale in 1991 nor had in-house.


In fact, that is even a rare 1993 Daimler-Benz AG internal photo of a 90% final prototype for the 1995 model year S-Class facelift, which had been finalized in the second half of 1992, just as the LS 400 got its own first refresh for '93.


That internal photo keeps being slipped around for some reason, even though no one was able to buy one like that and it's likely mixed up with actual '95 cars.


It likely came from an early photo shoot from early/mid-1993, before they made the last minute changes to the car. This may not be your fault, when too many bot sites keep taking such photography and labeling it incorrectly.


1993 Prototype für W140 modellpflege (facelift) (C) 1993 Daimler-Benz Aktiengesellschaft (Press Photo)



Actual W140 Facelift for 1995 model year (European-spec) in January 1994 Photoshoot in Spain (Exact version that Princess Diana was fatally injured in, 1997)

MY 1995 - 1996 W140 S-Class (Facelift #1), U.S./Canadian-Spec




Very few know that version (black studio car) of the W140 even existed, because it was never available in the marketplace in that exact form.


Some very minor changes were made by MB designers to the W140 refresh before late 1993, ahead of that updated W140 range going on sale in mid-1994 as a rushed '95 model.


The taillights for instance (see my photo above), were smoke-tinted on this 1992/93 prototype, like the then-new C-Class (11/1993) and updated W124 E-Class (8/1993), as opposed to the actual W140 updates later launched in 1994 with amber indicators and other aesthetic changes over both pre-refresh (1991-94) and the prototype in the photo.


The S-Class nomenclature was still that of "600 SEL" in January 1993 on another prototype I saw, before officially switching to "S 600" later that year (1993) for 1994 models (last year for original "pre-facelift" W140).


The 1995 model year S-Class was probably the first quickie facelift by a company of this level, as back then no one did such a thing back then (like BMW will do in spring 2019 for the G11 7).


The W140 at intro was too bulky looking and overpriced to the European media, that numerous changes were made in a rush during the 1 year period from W140 launch in 1991 to approval in 1992, but still took about 2 years to arrive in showrooms in 1994 (exorbitant lead times).


The chief engineer was fired upon 1991 launch for costing them too much, on an already established model line (LS 400 also cost $1 billion).


A reason, why I do not see it as an accurate example of a "1991 S Class". They altered the W140 to look much slimmer like the LS 400 and BMW 7-Series and cut costs to lower prices. Interestingly enough Lexus, did the same thing for the 1995 model in slimming the car's appearance down and cutting costs (strong Yen).


These photos below would be a more accurate representation of 1992 model year S-Class, launched in the U.S. in October 1991. The black example you provided, is a little too new to compare with the first generation LS.


About half of the W140 press introduction photos were photographed during late 1989 and January-February 1991 (sectioned off photo shoots), so they are the same exact time period as the 1990 LS 400.


The first photos of the W140 S-Class were teased on November 16, 1990, not even including some earlier leaks or spy shots running parallel to Toyota's own introduction of the LS 400 in Europe.


U.S. Specification W140 1992 Model Year S-Class, introduced October 1991



I consider these to be the best press photos I've seen of either car, even though the W140 and XF20 LS photos I put up are more 1996-97 than 1990-92. The updated LS 400 (1st gen) was masterful and got ruined by the second generation, which they got correct with the 1997 update, then ruined again with the LS 430 in 2000, fixed with the 2003-06 version, and then topped by the LS 460 in 2006.

1992 - 1994 XF11 LS 400 Facelift European-specification

1997 - 2000 XF21 LS 400 Euro-spec (or MY1998-2000 Facelift)







1996-1998 W140 European-Spec (Left) MY 1997-1999 W140 (Facelift #2) U.S.-Spec (Right) 1996-98 W140 (Euro-spec, bottom) 1997-99 MY S 500 USA



W126 Facelift (1985-1991)
Wow, I appreciate the detail of your post and the great pics. I learned a lot. Those 98-00 LS400 pics re-confirm to me that's the most timeless LS design to date. Love that car.

Thanks again for the post. Very insightful.
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Old 03-27-17, 10:07 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by jrmckinley
Wow, I appreciate the detail of your post and the great pics. I learned a lot. Those 98-00 LS400 pics re-confirm to me that's the most timeless LS design to date. Love that car.

Thanks again for the post. Very insightful.
Agreed X2.. This made for a great bathroom read just now. I've owned a few Merc's over the years (1986 W201, 1989 W201 1997 W210). The LS is classy, but as was stated, the Merc is representative of the demographic it was intended for. Whether it was a drug dealer or a rich wife, the Benz was the car they chose, except for Tony Soprano...
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