(RUMOR Japanese Magazine has article that says) Lexus is canceling the GS line.
03-16-17, 12:40 PM
#46
Pole Position
If handling was such a big deal, nobody will buy the Camry, ES, RX, Highlander, Sienna. People will simply buy BMWs, Odysseys, Pilots and pretty anything else. If the ES being on a FWD platform matters, why is Audi growing like crazy? The GS is just poor execution and poorly marketed. I just dont understand the $80k or whatever it costs for the GSF or the $70k for the RCF.
03-16-17, 12:43 PM
#47
Pole Position
I thought people buy sports sedans because they also drive well 
The ES drives like a boat and completely unworthy of fighting BMW, Mercedes,and Audi in the mid-size sports sedan segment. The GS handles better than all of them and if they made it a better looking car, would probably compete better. I hope Lexus styles the next GS more aggressively.
The ES drives like a boat and completely unworthy of fighting BMW, Mercedes,and Audi in the mid-size sports sedan segment. The GS handles better than all of them and if they made it a better looking car, would probably compete better. I hope Lexus styles the next GS more aggressively.
03-16-17, 12:43 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
Audis are not on transverse FWD platforms, that's a common misconception. They are mostly longditudinal, even their FWD versions. Totally different setup than the ES.
If the GS is such a poor execution why did you lease one? My GS is perhaps my favorite car that I've had.
If the GS is such a poor execution why did you lease one? My GS is perhaps my favorite car that I've had.
03-16-17, 12:49 PM
#50
Pole Position
Audis are not on transverse FWD platforms, that's a common misconception. They are mostly longditudinal, even their FWD versions. Totally different setup than the ES.
If the GS is such a poor execution why did you lease one? My GS is perhaps my favorite car that I've had.
If the GS is such a poor execution why did you lease one? My GS is perhaps my favorite car that I've had.
Don't get me wrong, its a nice driving vehicle and love driving it, but I expected more in the luxury front.
03-16-17, 12:50 PM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
What trim is yours? Like I said my luxury package car was very luxurious inside.
03-16-17, 01:20 PM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
No luxury package, the base car is kind of plain I agree, lux package is much nicer. $55k nowadays is nothing. Look and see what sort of 5 series or A6 or E Class you can get for $55k. Not much luxury there either.
03-16-17, 01:55 PM
#54
Theoretically possible, but I doubt the GS will be axed.
They are known to sell over 30,000 units a year in the US.
Sure, the economy has gone down, and people have moved to SUV's and competition has increased with the Cadillac CTS, and Hyundai Genesis G80, however E Class and 5 Series is selling better than ever; no excuses for the top two Germans.
I own 3 & 4GS, and IMO, GS sales could ramp up if Lexus styled the car a bit better, and a bit less sporty; the excessive sportiness is turning mass mainstream buyers away.
Also, I'm not sure if the midlife facelifted 4.5GS's firm front shockies have anything to do with it; it is too firm - Lexus should at least have two different lines of shock absorbers, a softer setting for the mass market, and a firmer setting for the F Sport mode.
Although the current 4GS has electronic shockies, the soft setting is still way too firm for the mass mainstream of buyers.
Lexus should also have two different sets of coil springs: one for the mass mainstream market for a more compliant ride, and a second firmer set of coil springs for the F Sport model to keep the ride flat, to reduce weight transfer to the outside wheels, to maximize gripe.
JDR76 brilliantly commented above how as sales dramatically fall after around 4 years or so, the model cycle should be shortened from 7 years, to just 5 years, or even 4 years, but sure that will be very costly for TMC, however surely the ramped up sales will bring much more money back...
They are known to sell over 30,000 units a year in the US.
Sure, the economy has gone down, and people have moved to SUV's and competition has increased with the Cadillac CTS, and Hyundai Genesis G80, however E Class and 5 Series is selling better than ever; no excuses for the top two Germans.
I own 3 & 4GS, and IMO, GS sales could ramp up if Lexus styled the car a bit better, and a bit less sporty; the excessive sportiness is turning mass mainstream buyers away.
Also, I'm not sure if the midlife facelifted 4.5GS's firm front shockies have anything to do with it; it is too firm - Lexus should at least have two different lines of shock absorbers, a softer setting for the mass market, and a firmer setting for the F Sport mode.
Although the current 4GS has electronic shockies, the soft setting is still way too firm for the mass mainstream of buyers.
Lexus should also have two different sets of coil springs: one for the mass mainstream market for a more compliant ride, and a second firmer set of coil springs for the F Sport model to keep the ride flat, to reduce weight transfer to the outside wheels, to maximize gripe.
JDR76 brilliantly commented above how as sales dramatically fall after around 4 years or so, the model cycle should be shortened from 7 years, to just 5 years, or even 4 years, but sure that will be very costly for TMC, however surely the ramped up sales will bring much more money back...
03-16-17, 02:12 PM
#55
In other words, the mass midsize luxury market actually prefers a softer ride.
Only enthusiasts prefer a firmer ride, but enthusiasts are only a small niche group.
Why not have the best of both worlds by having two completely different sets of suspensions settings?
A normally soft setting for mainstream buyers, and a firm setting for F Sport buyers?
Presently if I'm not wrong, the 4GS has only the one suspension setting [per engine type], and the F Sport simply has sportier rims and sportier tires, plus rear wheel steering...
03-16-17, 02:31 PM
#56
I'm surprised it doesn't sell better. The A6 doesn't sell much either. The 5er and E-class absolutely dominate this segment. It's weird cause where I live I see PLENTY of GS' and A6s. They seem very popular.
I think the issue is that the ES offers just as much room for much less money. The GS is a better looking, more luxurious, and more sporty car; but the people who want a cheap Japanese luxury sedan naturally gravitate toward the cheaper ES.
Lexus could shelve the GS and move the ES upmarket into the mid-size category, but then the price would rise and they'd lose their loyal ES customers. Similar to what happened with the Cadillac CTS.
Personally I think Lexus should stick with the GS and make the new one a much better car. The current gen is a great car but it just couldn't lure BMW and Mercedes people away. It wasn't significantly better than the competition, in fact it was about on-par. Now it's behind with the latest E and 5er.
I think the issue is that the ES offers just as much room for much less money. The GS is a better looking, more luxurious, and more sporty car; but the people who want a cheap Japanese luxury sedan naturally gravitate toward the cheaper ES.
Lexus could shelve the GS and move the ES upmarket into the mid-size category, but then the price would rise and they'd lose their loyal ES customers. Similar to what happened with the Cadillac CTS.
Personally I think Lexus should stick with the GS and make the new one a much better car. The current gen is a great car but it just couldn't lure BMW and Mercedes people away. It wasn't significantly better than the competition, in fact it was about on-par. Now it's behind with the latest E and 5er.
Last edited by BrownPride; 03-16-17 at 02:36 PM.
03-16-17, 02:33 PM
#57
Lexus Champion
I thought it was the E Class who is normally the top seller in this segment.
In other words, the mass midsize luxury market actually prefers a softer ride.
Only enthusiasts prefer a firmer ride, but enthusiasts are only a small niche group.
Why not have the best of both worlds by having two completely different sets of suspensions settings?
A normally soft setting for mainstream buyers, and a firm setting for F Sport buyers?
Presently if I'm not wrong, the 4GS has only the one suspension setting [per engine type], and the F Sport simply has sportier rims and sportier tires, plus rear wheel steering...
In other words, the mass midsize luxury market actually prefers a softer ride.
Only enthusiasts prefer a firmer ride, but enthusiasts are only a small niche group.
Why not have the best of both worlds by having two completely different sets of suspensions settings?
A normally soft setting for mainstream buyers, and a firm setting for F Sport buyers?
Presently if I'm not wrong, the 4GS has only the one suspension setting [per engine type], and the F Sport simply has sportier rims and sportier tires, plus rear wheel steering...
The base GS350 has one suspension setup.
The GS350 F Sport has another setup. Thicker anti-roll bars, different bushing settings, and an aggressively programmed AVS.
The GS350 Luxury package has a less aggressively programmed AVS and does not have the other F Sport suspension changes.
Last edited by JDR76; 03-16-17 at 02:37 PM.
03-16-17, 03:12 PM
#58
My understanding is that there are now 3 different suspension setups on the GS350.
The base GS350 has one suspension setup.
The GS350 F Sport has another setup. Thicker anti-roll bars, different bushing settings, and an aggressively programmed AVS.
The GS350 Luxury package has a less aggressively programmed AVS and does not have the other F Sport suspension changes.
The base GS350 has one suspension setup.
The GS350 F Sport has another setup. Thicker anti-roll bars, different bushing settings, and an aggressively programmed AVS.
The GS350 Luxury package has a less aggressively programmed AVS and does not have the other F Sport suspension changes.
I find that the midlife updated 3.5IS now has at least two different suspension settings, because my wife's IS base model is much more compliant than the F Sport version.
Thus, it probably isn't the suspension that has caused 2016 4.5GS sales to plummet to just 14,000 units/year; even the Audi A6 only dropped to 18,000 units, and that's not including the 6,550 units from the closely related Audi A7 SportsBack, for a total of 24,000 units in Audi's midsize luxury sedan segment.
Maybe the 4.5GS styling was too "radical" for conservative midsize luxury car buyer's tastes, while the 4GS dash [which is actually a copy off the old 2003-10 BMW 5 Series with the high mount LCD screen] looks luxurious, expensive, and very well made, but it is rather dull and lack lustre in style...
03-16-17, 03:14 PM
#59
Lexus Champion
You are probably right; 4.5GS probably has three different suspension settings now, but I'm never test driven the midlife updates.
I find that the midlife updated 3.5IS now has at least two different suspension settings, because my wife's IS base model is much more compliant than the F Sport version.
Thus, it probably isn't the suspension that has caused 2016 4.5GS sales to plummet to just 14,000 units/year; even the Audi A6 only dropped to 18,000 units, and that's not including the 6,550 units from the closely related Audi A7 SportsBack, for a total of 24,000 units in Audi's midsize luxury sedan segment.
Maybe the 4.5GS styling was too "radical" for conservative midsize luxury car buyer's tastes, while the 4GS dash [which is actually a copy off the old 2003-10 BMW 5 Series with the high mount LCD screen] looks luxurious, expensive, and very well made, but it is rather dull and lack lustre in style...
I find that the midlife updated 3.5IS now has at least two different suspension settings, because my wife's IS base model is much more compliant than the F Sport version.
Thus, it probably isn't the suspension that has caused 2016 4.5GS sales to plummet to just 14,000 units/year; even the Audi A6 only dropped to 18,000 units, and that's not including the 6,550 units from the closely related Audi A7 SportsBack, for a total of 24,000 units in Audi's midsize luxury sedan segment.
Maybe the 4.5GS styling was too "radical" for conservative midsize luxury car buyer's tastes, while the 4GS dash [which is actually a copy off the old 2003-10 BMW 5 Series with the high mount LCD screen] looks luxurious, expensive, and very well made, but it is rather dull and lack lustre in style...
The IS has 3 different setups since 3IS intro. The base 250/200t/300/350 have one setup. The F Sport 250/200t/300 have a stiffened up "sport" suspension. The 350 F Sport has AVS.
Last edited by JDR76; 03-16-17 at 03:18 PM.
03-16-17, 03:21 PM
#60
I think Lexus is more of a reactionary company when it comes to on board technology and is stubborn about updates. We see many competitors aggressively keeping up with changes(Apple and android systems) as well as meaningful updates to current NAV systems have at no charge. My '13 GS has been as buggy as can be with things like Pandora, text messaging and of course Lexus won't upgrade maps without writing a check. I think maybe because of the traditional audience that buys their cars they don't feel the pressure to keep up but after 4 of these I am finding out by shopping around how far behind they are. While they may feel the "spindle" grill is all that and a bag of chips the only thing I can say fairly is that it is very polarizing. If they think that will attract younger buyers they better get their head in the game with the rest of it, like technology and updates that are meaningful. Tesla is fueling that movement and others are getting on board.
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