Lexus Plus "Upfront Pricing"
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From: Maryland
He was being sarcastic lol
People want a "no haggle price" but they also want a price lower than the MSRP. If the manufacturer creates both numbers, they're just making numbers up is the point. A haggle price is arrived at based on market demand and negotiation in real time. Its all just smoke and mirrors and some people aren't sharp enough to see that.
A no haggle price has always existed...the MSRP. If the MSRP is $60,000 and you pay $60,000...thats no haggle...but you aren't happy because you can't pretend you got a good deal. If the MSRP for the same car is now $65,000 and you pay $60,000 in a "no haggle Lexus Plus price", you're happy because "you got a deal", yet Lexus just totally played you for a fool.
Some of us prefer to keep the negotiation in our hands so we know we're getting a good deal. Those of you who claim not to care about getting the lowest deal and just want a no haggle price...why not pay sticker? Same damn thing.
People want a "no haggle price" but they also want a price lower than the MSRP. If the manufacturer creates both numbers, they're just making numbers up is the point. A haggle price is arrived at based on market demand and negotiation in real time. Its all just smoke and mirrors and some people aren't sharp enough to see that.
A no haggle price has always existed...the MSRP. If the MSRP is $60,000 and you pay $60,000...thats no haggle...but you aren't happy because you can't pretend you got a good deal. If the MSRP for the same car is now $65,000 and you pay $60,000 in a "no haggle Lexus Plus price", you're happy because "you got a deal", yet Lexus just totally played you for a fool.
Some of us prefer to keep the negotiation in our hands so we know we're getting a good deal. Those of you who claim not to care about getting the lowest deal and just want a no haggle price...why not pay sticker? Same damn thing.
Last edited by SW17LS; Feb 8, 2017 at 01:00 PM.
Thread Starter
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From: Pennsylvania
He was being sarcastic lol
People want a "no haggle price" but they also want a price lower than the MSRP. If the manufacturer creates both numbers, they're just making numbers up is the point. A haggle price is arrived at based on market demand and negotiation in real time. Its all just smoke and mirrors and some people aren't sharp enough to see that.
A no haggle price has always existed...the MSRP. If the MSRP is $60,000 and you pay $60,000...thats no haggle...but you aren't happy because you can't pretend you got a good deal. If the MSRP for the same car is now $65,000 and you pay $60,000 in a "no haggle Lexus Plus price", you're happy because "you got a deal", yet Lexus just totally played you for a fool.
Some of us prefer to keep the negotiation in our hands so we know we're getting a good deal. Those of you who claim not to care about getting the lowest deal and just want a no haggle price...why not pay sticker? Same damn thing.
People want a "no haggle price" but they also want a price lower than the MSRP. If the manufacturer creates both numbers, they're just making numbers up is the point. A haggle price is arrived at based on market demand and negotiation in real time. Its all just smoke and mirrors and some people aren't sharp enough to see that.
A no haggle price has always existed...the MSRP. If the MSRP is $60,000 and you pay $60,000...thats no haggle...but you aren't happy because you can't pretend you got a good deal. If the MSRP for the same car is now $65,000 and you pay $60,000 in a "no haggle Lexus Plus price", you're happy because "you got a deal", yet Lexus just totally played you for a fool.
Some of us prefer to keep the negotiation in our hands so we know we're getting a good deal. Those of you who claim not to care about getting the lowest deal and just want a no haggle price...why not pay sticker? Same damn thing.
Last edited by daryll40; Feb 8, 2017 at 02:41 PM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
And as I have always said...if somebody truly doesn't care about having the best price, there is no haggle pricing available now...its called MSRP. If you walk into any Lexus dealer and buy something for MSRP or whatever is marked on the vehicle, you'll have a great experience.
Some customers are never satisfied no matter how low the price is (even if they make out like a bandit), and some either blindly want the vehicle so much, or have so much disposable cash lying around that they don't care how much the dealership asks. (I've shopped with both types). The majority of customers I've seen are satisfied if they can get a vehicle reasonably close to what they wanted, at a price they can afford and fit into their budget. And, of course, no matter what you pay, somebody else (friend, colleague, supervisor, employee, family, acquaintance, forum-member LOL) is going to come along and say you paid too much, that they could have done better. I learned, a long time ago, not to get caught up in the "I paid too much" syndrome...most of the time, it's like a dog endlessly chasing its own tail. Do the best homework you can (a lot of members here at CL can help, and Consumer Reports also has good points), find the vehicle you want (or close to it), make the best deal you can, take it home, and don't lose sleep at night worrying over what you paid. That formula has served me (and a number of others) well for many years.
Last edited by mmarshall; Feb 8, 2017 at 02:57 PM.
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I'm satisfied if I can get the "Fair Market Price" average of both Edmunds and KBB, as well as any additional incentives not shown in their numbers. And the same for my trade in. As much as it's all American to dislike car dealers (and they earned that dislike), they do have big dollars invested in real estate, inventory and people. I'm ok giving them a FAIR profit. But I'm not OK being abused as I feel I was this time around.
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From: ON/NY
I'm satisfied if I can get the "Fair Market Price" average of both Edmunds and KBB, as well as any additional incentives not shown in their numbers. And the same for my trade in. As much as it's all American to dislike car dealers (and they earned that dislike), they do have big dollars invested in real estate, inventory and people. I'm ok giving them a FAIR profit. But I'm not OK being abused as I feel I was this time around.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,629
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
I don't want to be argumentative, but, no, it isn't always simple. Sometimes it can be quite difficult finding out what invoice is, due to a number of factors, though you can often approximate it.
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We only have two Lexus dealers here and both are owned by the same owner. So they have a local monopoly. I've owned or help others own 30 cars from this dealership. I trusted them to give me at least a ballpark market price because I am a known loyal customer who comes back because, well, I more or less trusted them. I did not do my homework because I trusted them. They farked me. So, fool me once, shame on them, fool me twice..... I won't get fooled again (The Who playing in the background).
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From: In your head
Using that axiom, though, one can argue all day about just what is considered the "best price". Some customers are never satisfied no matter how low the price is (even if they make out like a bandit), and some either blindly want the vehicle so much, or have so much disposable cash lying around that they don't care how much the dealership asks. (I've shopped with both types). The majority of customers I've seen are satisfied if they can get a vehicle reasonably close to what they wanted, at a price they can afford and fit into their budget. And, of course, no matter what you pay, somebody else (friend, colleague, supervisor, employee, family, acquaintance, forum-member LOL) is going to come along and say you paid too much, that they could have done better. I learned, a long time ago, not to get caught up in the "I paid too much" syndrome...most of the time, it's like a dog endlessly chasing its own tail.
Some customers are never satisfied no matter how low the price is (even if they make out like a bandit), and some either blindly want the vehicle so much, or have so much disposable cash lying around that they don't care how much the dealership asks. (I've shopped with both types). The majority of customers I've seen are satisfied if they can get a vehicle reasonably close to what they wanted, at a price they can afford and fit into their budget. And, of course, no matter what you pay, somebody else (friend, colleague, supervisor, employee, family, acquaintance, forum-member LOL) is going to come along and say you paid too much, that they could have done better. I learned, a long time ago, not to get caught up in the "I paid too much" syndrome...most of the time, it's like a dog endlessly chasing its own tail.If your happy being the "so-called" hard core negotiator you can do that currently.
If your happy paying a given value, MSRP exists you can do that without any fuss.
If your happy paying a little less amount then sticker same as the other two.
Your experience will depend on what you want to make of it and its worked thus far. And, yes I get it, this seems a way of increasing margins for both the mfg and dealerships, but lets be honest here do you think a mega conglomerate or even the minor groups which are soon to take over most dealerships and bring them under one umbrella are going to somehow benefit floor staff or service staff?
BTW this isnt a response to you directly, more to those who think L+ is the "right way forward"
Lexus Fanatic
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Well my point is not to make a problem where none exists. That's why my advice is not to lose sleep over deals.
Well, again, my point was that, in most cases, you don't have to pay MSRP (or over list)......unless there is a particularly low supply and high demand.
In some cases (such as high demand/low-supply) a small discount may not be a bad deal.
I'm being totally honest. I've been buying new vehicles (and shopping with others) for over 40 years. I've learned a few things in that time. That does not mean I claim to be a know-it-all (in fact, I am not)....but you learn from experience.
No two deals (and auto-buying circumstance) are exactly alike....even with no-dicker pricing, there are unique circumstances in each case.
If your happy paying a given value, MSRP exists you can do that without any fuss.
If your happy paying a little less amount then sticker same as the other two.
Your experience will depend on what you want to make of it and its worked thus far. And, yes I get it, this seems a way of increasing margins for both the mfg and dealerships, but lets be honest here
BTW this isnt a response to you directly, more to those who think L+ is the "right way forward"
Last edited by mmarshall; Feb 8, 2017 at 06:35 PM.
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Posts: 35,562
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From: ON/NY
Yup, but thats more of making a problem where none exists.
If your happy being the "so-called" hard core negotiator you can do that currently.
If your happy paying a given value, MSRP exists you can do that without any fuss.
If your happy paying a little less amount then sticker same as the other two.
Your experience will depend on what you want to make of it and its worked thus far. And, yes I get it, this seems a way of increasing margins for both the mfg and dealerships, but lets be honest here do you think a mega conglomerate or even the minor groups which are soon to take over most dealerships and bring them under one umbrella are going to somehow benefit floor staff or service staff?
BTW this isnt a response to you directly, more to those who think L+ is the "right way forward"
If your happy being the "so-called" hard core negotiator you can do that currently.
If your happy paying a given value, MSRP exists you can do that without any fuss.
If your happy paying a little less amount then sticker same as the other two.
Your experience will depend on what you want to make of it and its worked thus far. And, yes I get it, this seems a way of increasing margins for both the mfg and dealerships, but lets be honest here do you think a mega conglomerate or even the minor groups which are soon to take over most dealerships and bring them under one umbrella are going to somehow benefit floor staff or service staff?
BTW this isnt a response to you directly, more to those who think L+ is the "right way forward"
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From: Pennsylvania
Not everyone cares about the rock bottom price. Lexus + just gives someone an easier way of buying the vehicle. My guess is that the Lexus + price is close to what the local market is selling the car for on average. I don't believe there is going to be giant $5000 price swings like someone who bought their GX said they got. I was looking around on some of the Lexus + dealer sites, there were a few models on the site that were full MSPR or slightly above it, then there were plenty of GX460s going for around $3000-$3500 off. Same with the ES.
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Posts: 35,562
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From: ON/NY
So if that is the case. Go somewhere else. I don't understand why you are so upset.
