If you want a Lexus and that's where you live, you can't go somewhere else.

 

I believe he or she is expressing their distaste for the overall program experience.

 

I get that, but if the person did not like the program, then why did they buy into the program? If the Lexus dealers are owned by the same the person, and they choose to offer take it or leave it pricing, then what is so horribly wrong with that? I looked at the website for the two dealers in Nebraska, there are a number of ES350 models that have a $3000 discount off the MSRP. Is that not a fair price?

 

...........unless you live here LOL, with all of our local shops.

 

yes and no. There are certain pricing covenants in place for (believe it or not) your protection as a consumer. Imagine a car manufacturer that incentivizes its dealer to do huge volume that increases every year. So dealers compete with each other to get manufacturer bonuses and it creates a race to the bottom pricing-wise. It makes sense to lose money on cars over and over again to out-volume the other dealers and get a huge manufacturer's bonus. Cheap cars though -- so sounds good for the consumer, right? Nope.

Because the problem starts to show itself in the resale market. Used car prices have to proportionally lower with new car prices because why would you buy a used car if you can get a new one for the same price since ABC Motors is taking XX,XXX off their new cars to hit a volume number? So as used car prices plummet, so do trade-in values, which is accompanied with a rise in negative equity in car loans + default on credit, etc. etc. etc.

There have to be some rules in place -- but not one-price.

 

You have some valid points. I just don't agree. The vast majority of buyers just want to feel like they won and be confident they got a good deal. One-price eliminates that whole process entirely. I worked for Scion as they were going down -- people would legitimately leave because "y'all aren't willing to haggle" or "they just don't wanna sell us a car" ALL THE TIME. Can't speak for Saturn...

 

OK, fine.....I respect your opinion.

I disagree, though, because, both as a Saturn customer and an auto enthusiast, I watched what happened to a once-great company, year by year, after 2000, as the morons in GM's upper management simply ruined the firm with several ludicrous and redundant products....starting with the ridiculous Ion and the ill-fated L-class.


............But, at the same time, they were buying Saturns, under the same no-haggle policy. So, that's why, at least IMO, one cannot blame the no-haggle policy for the death of these firms. Scion also had a problem that Saturn did not have.......competing small Toyota products being sold out of the same showrooms, which, no matter how they were sold, mechanically, were essentially the same as the Scions under the skin.

Also, don't forget that the no-haggle policy (even with the newer Lexus Upfront system we were originally discussing) also prevents dealerships from marking vehicles up over list with ADM (Additional Market Value) when those vehicles are in low supply and high demand. We saw an example of that when the 2-seater Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters debuted. Demand for the both of them very high at first, and supply very low, so Pontiac dealers were making a killing with ADMs, while the Saturn shops could not charge more than list.....though the rules did allow Saturn shops to add profit-making accessories to the cars.

I can speak, and owned two of them, though one was an excellent car for several years, and the other was a lemon....I only kept it a couple of weeks, and Saturn, true to its 30-day promise, refunded the entire purchase-price (even the sales-tax I had paid on it, which they didn't have to do). It was replaced, BTW, with a new Lexus IS300.

 

As it stands today, I can think of not a single model in the lineup of Lexus that would command an ADM. I have heard ADMs on the LFA, but on the current lineup i dont think ADM is a big problem. M4s, AMG GTs, Hellcats etc

 

I agree with you on most of the bread-and-butter Lexus models, and even the F-Sport ones. For full-F models, though, that might be another story.

 

Maybe the launch month, I`ve never kept up with the F series launches. However couple things of contention, F series vehicles First Years (GSF and RCF) were going for 25% off retail new. Second year RCFs are going for 10-15% discount. ADMs on say an M3/4 are insanely consistent, either due to low allocation or artificial supply holds to drive ADMs. Hence why I believe ADM is a no issue for most vehicles out of the Lexus pipeline, unless we see more LFA-esque limited supply vehicles are launched.

 

The least of Saturn's problems were its no haggle pricing. How about the mediocre products in their ultra competitive segment? Did you ever compare contemporary Saturn SLs vs Corollas or Civics? No comparison. Not to mention their very narrow product line (2 models) for many years. Saturns weren't bad, just meh--and I owned one...because the price was way cheaper than a Civic or Sentra. Then, as they started to bleed money, they just took the old GM strategy of rebadging other mediocre GM products. If no haggle was such a Saturn issue, there's a simple immediate solution--abandon it. Not so for curing subpar products.

I'm with mmarshall on this one--a vast majority loathe the car-purchase process, and would do whatever they could to avoid it. Car dealers aren't throwing darts in the dark here; they are adopting these pricing policies based on market research and data. The no-haggle price makes purchasers feel like they got a good deal--without the distasteful negotiation process that most people hate. Did they actually get a good deal? Probably not. But they feel like they did.

 

Not everyone has the patience, tolerance or wherewithal to go 4-5+ hours to a remote dealer for a car purchase. Personally, I would do it; but I know I'm in the minority. And if you have to trade your car, good luck not getting screwed over by that dealer that knows you just drove 5 hours, and do not want to walk out without your new car.

 

I appreciate the comments but I'm not sure I agree. If competition yields lower prices then those lower prices will just roll through to used cars. There will always be a delta between used and new. Now if your point is the guy who paid MSRP is screwed because of all the cars being sold at rock bottom prices, then I agree that's a problem. Overall, I don't think there needs to be any rules on pricing in place to make the market work. Competition among dealers in the same brand and among competing brands is a good thing for all of us. Artificially fixing pricing under the guise of a fair market deal is not.

 

Out of market purchases can be tough but in my case the brought the car to my front door and took my trade sight unseen. Better than the local dealer in fact. All the paperwork was ready.

 

I had a 1999 plastic-bodied SL2...I loved it, except for the flimsy, poorly-located horn-buttons on the steering wheel spokes. Those cars were unique in many ways...the S-series even had clever spin-off transmission filters, similiar to oil-filters for the engine, that made transmission work a breeze. Saturn really shot themselves in the foot when they dropped the S-series.

Yep.....no arguments there. That's what killed them, though the Aura was quite a nice sedan......IMO the best product they still had in the line-up when Saturn folded. I considered buying one before I waited a few more years and got a Verano.


Actually, some of those discounted, no-dicker prices aren't bad. It depends on the vehicle, the overall supply-and-demand market for it, and what the dealer thinks they can reasonably charge for it....and get. Sometimes, the dealership, particularly at or near the end of the month, gets special incentives from the factory to move certain products......one reason why I like to shop near the end of the month.