Ok. So thinking​ from a logical pov. Do you really think Toyota would make the trunk opening smaller? The manufacturer of the #1 US selling car for 15 straight years would more than likely not shrink the trunk opening.

 

I think Sulu is just referring to the fact that the new Camry's trunk opening looks smaller.

It's amazing you know.
Years ago, they criticized Japanese cars for having great multivalve engines, but poor handling. Now 4GS & 3IS have great handling, but then they criticize them for lacking 0-60.
Years ago, they criticized my old 3GS for being low with a swoopy shape, a heavily raked rear windscreen, and a small trunk opening. Now, the past two generations of E Classes have become lower, with raked rear windscreens and a small trunk opening, and all of this is now okay.
The Japanese just can't win, can they?

_

 

i think you should stop using the word 'jap'. i've seen you use it multiple times but haven't said anything about it. it's a derogatory term and it really shouldn't be used.

 

Agreed....

 

It was already amended thanks.

 

Agreed. I back that up.

 

Thanks!...

 

One thing to keep in mind when looking at sales numbers is when a group of models were new. For Lexus, the IS, GS, and ES were all newly redesigned roughly within a short period of time. This always inflates sales numbers for the brand, with all three swift-selling sedans gaining fresh designs and customers in the process. Adding the hot new NX into the mix will inflate numbers even more.
Overall, I think Lexus is hanging in there, and the new, more youthful styling is drawing younger, more immature drivers/buyers. Either way, it's money in Lexus's pocket. Perhaps the original or traditional Lexus buyers of the 1990's and 2000's have moved to other brands or are content with the languishing LS and somewhat still cushy ES.

 

Welcome to the world of coupe-sedan styling. Trunk lids are only one of the victims. There are several others as well....headroom, ease of entry/exit, outward visibility, etc....

 

Younger, more immature drivers buying Lexus? Is that a bad thing?


I'm glad that Lexus is selling more cars to whomever. I'm also glad that traditional 3-box styling is out, in favor of swoopy coupe-like styling for sedans. About the only thing I'm not fond of is the disappearance of big wagons - they're superior to crossovers for carrying stuff and they have better handling. I've managed to stuff a mountain bike into the back seat of the ES (rear seats don't fold on the hybrid) but I'd be the first in line for an ES wagon. Or maybe the only one in line. The Mondeo/Fusion estate/wagon looks fine though.

 

People don't seem to want to buy them. They would rather pay more money for small cross-overs like the NX or RX that don't offer a ton more room/

 

I'll tell you what though, I went and looked at a new Volvo V90 Cross Country. It was awesome, gorgeous looking, great interior, and still good utility.

 

The theory I have is that anything wagon and/or AWD will cut into cross-over sales. Toyota and Lexus make you pay a premium if you were in the market for space efficiency and/or AWD, the profit margins are so good for cross-overs. For example, Toyota canceled both the AWD Matrix and the AWD Venza, instead, you need to jump to a Rav4 or Highlander which both start at a higher price. Same thing with Lexus and the ES, if Lexus were to offer an ES or a wagon and/or AWD there would be a significant number of takers for them. NX, RAV and RX and Highlanders are nothing more than cars riding a little higher and offering AWD.

People who believe that sedans are vanishing forget that some manufactures make in impossible to get AWD. If Camry, Avalon, ES and lets say Matrix were all offered in AWD, the cross-over sales would be different.

 

Oh well, we could all lament the non-arrival of the Alfa 159 Sportwagon, probably the sexiest wagon ever made. Volvo V-series are practical people movers, BMW 5-series wagons are Euro-only unicorns, the Acura TSX wagon comes close to the Alfa in terms of knockout styling.

Did Toyota ever make a wagon version of the Camry or Corolla?

 

Yes to both. But back in the 1980s. AWD as well.

FYI, the Matrix was technically a Corolla hatchback, the current iM Corolla is a hatchback, both qualify as wagons IMO. Same thing with the Venza which was in reality a Camry wagon.