mmarshall

By request, a Review of the all-new 2017 Chrysler Pacifica minivan

http://www.chrysler.com/en/pacifica

IN A NUTSHELL: Arguably the best-looking minivan yet, with some very handy features, but some early fit/finish issues.


CLOSEST AMERICAN-MARKET COMPETITORS: Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Kia Sedona

(As of this writing, the old Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan minivans will also be sold alongside the Pacifica for awhile, and then dropped, probably by the end of the model year)


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(Built-in vacuum hose)






OVERVIEW:

First, for those of you that remember the old Chrysler Pacifica people-mover, before I even start my usual vehicle overview/history, I want to make clear that this is NOT the return of that vehicle.....simply the nameplate (some of you, of course, will notice that from the pictures). The old Pacifica, which was dropped several years ago, was an entirely different type of people-mover, using the same 2+2+2 seating layout and conventional side doors as Mercedes R-Class, which has also been discontinued in the U.S.. The smaller Mazda5 also used that same basic layout (and a mininvan-like sliding side door), and has also been dropped from the U.S. market. No, the all-new 2017 Pacifica, unlike the old vehicle, is a conventional sliding-door minivan that seats 7-8.....and, though styling is subjective, a number of auto-reviewrs are calling it the best-looking minivan yet. I can't really argue with them...but we'll get to that later.

The ubiquitous VW Microbus, dating back to 1949, could arguably be considered the first minivan (at least by American standards). But, its wheezy and severely underpowered (40-60 HP, depending on model year) air-cooled Beetle flat-four engine in back, shoe-box styling which, together with the light front end, allowed it to be blown all over the road in a crosswind, tepid heater/defroster which took all day to warm up, swing-axle rear suspension, and almost complete lack of crash protection in front made it quirky, uncomfortable, noisy, demanding, and even, in some cases, even dangerous to drive. In the 1960s, it became one of the classic symbols of the Hippie drug-conterculture and communal-living, often crudely painted with peace-signs and pastel color-blotches. Yet, it soldiered on for years because of its simplicity and reliability (though the engines were highly stressed and often needed valve work).

In late 1983, Chrysler stunned the automotive industry (at least here in America) by offering what were the first real alternatives to the ungainly VW buses...crossover, sedan-based minivans with front-wheel drive, transversely-mounted engines, relatively easy-driving characteristics and good stability, easy entry/exit, and a lower ride-height than full-size minivans. The result was predictable......those new Dodge Caravans and Plymouth Voyagers flew off of dealer-lots like like free beer at Clancy's Bar. It was arguably the hottest new-vehicle design since the fabulously successful 1964 Ford Mustang twenty years earlier. Families, by the hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) quickly dumped their old full-size wagons as trade-ins, as they found that the new minivans were exactly what they needed....the right vehicle at the at the right time. Ford and GM were both basically caught off guard, and spent several years trying to catch up, introducing some hastily-developed truck-based RWD competitors that could not really compete. A few years later, an upscale Chrysler Town and Country version of the minivan was added, with the traditional wood-tone body-panel decals and better-equipped cabin that had been the hallmark of the former big Chrysler Town& Country station wagons.

But, unfortunately, not all was good with those early (and even some of the later) Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler minivans. Like other American-designed Chrysler-products of the era, they were sloppily-assembled, notorious rattle/squeak machines, and tended to loosen up and/or shed parts as age and mileage built up on them. They were also well-known for transmission problems...especially with the notoriously unreliable Ultradrive 4-speed automatic transmission. One of my supervisors, at work, had a Caravan that went through no less than four Ultradrive units in less than three years. In their favor, though (perhaps because Chrysler was the company that actually invented the FWD minivan), they came up with some innovative features before other minivans got around to copying them. These included such things as under-floor folding Stow-and-Go seats that made it easy to convert the minivan to a long flat floor for carrying very large items, and the (ingenious, IMO) built-in Safety Child Seats in back that fold up and down into the regular seat, making it much easier to get small children in and out and properly secure them. One other ingenious item, though, that the Honda Odyssey, not the Chrysler minivans, gets credit for, is the built-in, pull-out vacuum-hose for cleaning up Junior's constant spills....the new Pacifica adopts that feature.

So, with Fiat/Chrysler's ultimate decision to phase out the old Town and Country and Grand Caravan (they will still be sold alongside for a little while yet), comes their replacement.....the all-new 2017 Chrysler Pacifica. As mentioned above, the Pacifica brings back the old nameplate from the unsuccessful 2+2+2 people-mover, but is a more conventional type of minivan, with the rear lift gate and conventional sliding doors. There was some debate (even on auto forums LOL) if Chrysler should have simply kept the Town & Country name (which I and some others would have preferred) or if the name-change to Pacifica was better. Chrysler, however, decided on the name change due to its new platform, new technology, new image, and the addition of a new hybrid model as well.

For 2017, the all-new Pacifica comes in six trim-lines....LX ($28,595), Touring ($30,495), Touring L ($34,495), Touring L Plus ($37,895), Limited ($42,495), and Hybrid. All gas versions come with the ubiquitous 3.6L Pentastar V6 of 287 HP and 262 ft-lbs. of torque, and a 9-speed automatic transmission with Chrysler's rotary-****-shifter. The Hybrid model is actually an extended-range, plug-In Hybrid, though Chrysler won't actually use that term in its naming. Chrysler, as of this review, hasn't released all of the upcoming Hybrid's specs or pricing yet on its web site yet (for all we know, it might do so tomorrow). But, other sources indicate it will use the same 3.6L V6 gas engine (together with a 16 KW hybrid-battery) as the gas versions. Sources differ on whether the Hybrid transmission will be the same 9-speed automatic the other versions use, or if it will be the more common (for a hybrid) CVT....Continuously Variable Transmission (my guess is it will be a CVT, but we'll see). The Hybrid V6, though with the same block as the standard gas engine, will (reportedly) be detuned to 248 HP and 230 ft-lbs. of torque. The hybrid battery-pack will fully-charge in only two hours from a 240-volt outlet. No AWD versions of the Pacifica will be available as of now......the Toyota Sienna remains the only minivan currently in the American market with that important available feature.

For the review, as usual, I tried out a few different interiors (not a whole lot of Pacificas are in stock right now, as they are just starting to arrive at D.C.-area dealerships), and, for the test-drive, a Touring version with minimal options.



MODEL REVIEWED: 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Touring

BASE PRICE: $30,495


OPTIONS:

Power Liftgate: $495

UConnect 84 System: $595




DESTINATION/FREIGHT: $995 (reasonable for a vehicle this size)

LIST PRICE AS REVIEWED: $32,580



DRIVETRAIN: FWD, Transversely-mounted 3.6L Pentastar V6, 287 HP @ 6400 RPM, Torque 262 Ft-lbs. @ 4000 RPM, 9-speed automatic transmission.


EPA MILEAGE RATING: 18 City, 28 Highway, 22 Combined (not bad for a non hybrid V6 minivan this size)


EXTERIOR COLOR: Brilliant Black Crystal Pearl

INTERIOR: Two-Tone Black/Alloy Cloth





PLUSSES:


Widely-admired body styling.

Fairly nice paint color choice.

Convenient cap-less gas filler-pipe system.

Good road manners by minivan standards.

Responsive steering.

Reasonably good ride comfort.

Generally good wind and road noise control.

Well-designed brakes and brake pedal.

Generally well-done paint job.

Some handy convenience features.

Plug-in-Hybrid version coming.

5/100 drivetrain warranty useful for those who quickly drive many miles.

Generally widespread dealer network for parts and service.






MINUSES:


No AWD option to compete with Toyota Sienna AWD.

Some fit/finish issues and ill-fitting parts on early production models.

Funeral-Home exterior paint colors.

Relatively tight underdhood space for DIY'ers.

Generally unimpressive interior materials.

Annoying sun-visor clips.

Uncomfortable rear seats on some versions.

Awkward (IMO) dash-mounted rotary-**** shifter for the transmission.

Poorly-done Pacifica web-site for details, IMO...but that is not the vehicle's fault.

Possible long-term reliabilty concerns.




EXTERIOR:

Styling, of course, is subjective, but a number of auto-reviewers feel that the Pacifica is the best-looking minivan yet...I can't really say I disagree. It is obviously a marked styling departure from its long-running Town & Country predecessor. The whole exterior is a nice combination of moderate streamlining and minivan boxiness/space-efficiency....though not to the extent of the extreme wedge-nose, plastic-body "Dust-buster" GM minivans of the 1990s, which, IMO, were ludicrous. The Pacifica's nose, grille, and headlights are borrowed heavily from (but not identical to) the sister Chrysler 200 sedan....again, not a bad thing, as many also like the 200's styling, which is quite different from its former, rental-car image. The body sheet-metal, except for the rather light aluminum hood (which I'll get to later) seems more solid and buckle-resistant-than I've seen on a number of other new vehicles lately...perhaps (?) out of a realization on the designers' part that a lot of kids would be riding bikes, skateboards, scooters, etc.....around or close to Pacificas, and occasionally bumping into them. There are nice wide chrome trim-strips along the bottom of the side doors, but they are far too low to provide parking-lot protection from other doors. Nine different exterior paint-color choices are offered across the board, in all trim versions, but, IMO, all but of a couple of them look like something out of Murphy's Funeral Home. The gas filler door is non-locking, but has a convenient cap-less filler-pipe system like the one pioneered several years ago on Ford products.....many people still drive off from gas stations and leave the caps sitting on the pumps, especially after the tether/attachment cords have broken or worn from age.

Perhaps because the Pacifica assembly-line just started up a couple of weeks ago, and it sometimes takes a little time to get initial teething problems, The ones I looked at were very early-production models, among the first off the assembly-line and delivered to dealerships. I noticed some quality-control and fit/finish issues on the exteriors (also a couple inside, but I'll get to that later). The paint jobs themselves looked OK, but some chrome trim-pieces around the edges of the doors and/or windows seemed misaligned and/or sometimes with a slightly loose feel to them in the middle or ends. Some of the rubber weather-insulation under the chrome strips stuck out in a couple of places it shouldn't have. And the front doors on various sample-models didn't seem to all close with the same solidness.....some front doors gave a nice thunk; others felt and sounded tinnier. If any of you shop for an early-production Pacifica, be sure to inspect it carefully, and try all of the hardware before buying or leasing.




UNDERHOOD:

Open the light aluminum hood, and there is a nice insulation pad underneath. There is a manual prop-rod to brace the hood instead of struts. Often, I would list that as a complaint...and I still think that a vehicle than can, in some cases, list for well over 40K should have struts. But, given the lightness of the aluminum hood and the relative ease of holding it up with one hand while you set the rod with the other, I'm not going to specifically complain on this one.

The transversely-mounted 3.6L Pentastar V6 fits into the rather small (by minivan standards) engine compartment rather tightly, and a large plastic engine cover prevents access to most top-engine components. There isn't much room down the sides of the block to reach components there, either. The battery, to the right and up front, is partly uncovered, but a large wide piece of plastic duct-work for the engine's air-intake covers much of the middle and left side of the battery. The filler-caps, dipsticks, and fluid-reservoirs, as with most vehicles, are easily accessible.




INTERIOR:

Inside, like on the exterior, the styling of Pacifica is a marked departure from its Town & Country predecessors. There are also some touches from the Chrysler 200 sedan inside, in the general look. And, overall, it had a pleasant, tastefully-done appearance to it, though I would have preferred some wood-tone trim here and there (the Touring version lacks wood-tone). But, underneath the pleasant face on the surface, like on the Toyota RAV-4's I reviewed a few weeks ago, I was not impressed with the quality of many of the trim-materials and hardware inside. Chrysler itself is definitely capable of better, as the interiors of recent Jeep Grand Cherokees show. The sun-visors and headliner have a nice light-colored fabric on them, but the flimsy tab-holder clips on the visors allow them to easily pop right out, and the visor to go sideways, when you simply want to rotate the visors down to the normal down-position. The primary gauges, with odd medium-blue strip lights, have busily-designed markings on the rims that don't always allow reading at a quick glance, and the secondary fuel/temp gauges are vertically-stacked bar-graphs between the primaries. The front seats were generally comfortable for a person my size (the leather seats somewhat more so than the cloth), and the leather itself seemed of a decent grade, but the second-row seats did not impress me at all. Even with the Captain's Chair-design and the armrests, the seats were narrow, hard, and very uncomfortable for a guy my size. Some of that, though, may (?) be because of the engineering compromises demanded by the (otherwise) handy Stow-N-Go feature. Each individual rear seat folds down, under the floor, to allow for a flat cargo space....the backs of the seats have the same carpet on them found in the floor cargo area. But it is a multi-step operation to lower the seats. First, the floor-panels must fold up and out of the way, requiring the release of a couple of levers and push/fold-motions for that. Then, the seats themselves must be folded/lowered, requiring more pretzel-likemotions. Then, the floor panels fold/lock back in place....and there is where I found either an engineering or quality/control goof. The floor panels are supposed to snap right in place and form a flat floor, but they were ill-fitting, rubbing on one another, stubborn, flimsy-feeling, and required a couple of hard pounds from my fists to jam in place and actually close properly to form a flat floor. The fold-down seat features, BTW, are not available on the Hybrid models because of the extra space need for the big electric hybrid battery-power-pack. On the 8-seat models, which seat three in the 2nd-row seat, the center portion does not fold under...it is removable, and you simply take it out and store it if you want a flat floor. I also noticed that the Pacifica does not have the handy built-in DOT-approved safety child seats in back like some Chrysler minivans had some time ago....which I thought was an excellent feature. Even though I don't have kids, I can appreciate what many parents go through constantly strapping kids in and out of those aftermarket child-seats....and studies have shown that many parents (still) don't do it correctly.

There were also some other things inside I didn't care for. Most of the plastics had a somewhat cheap feel to them. The somewhat awkward rotary-**** for the transmission-shifter (also borrowed from the 200 sedan) was mounted high on the center-dash, close to the more or less similiar-sized radio and climate U-Connect *****, though the shifter-**** was chrome rather than black to help differentiate it from the others. The inside door handles were painted a rather dull, cheap-looking silver-metallic finish. The air-vent adjusters had a rather loose, wobbly feel to them.....as did some of the ****-controls. And the center air vents are very close to where you have to put your hands and fingers to touch the center-screen dash icons (a type of layout that is becoming more common)...so they can get hot or cold blasts.

But, of course, not all is negative inside, and I don't want to appear overly-critical....the are are also some nice features inside, too. As in most minivans, you'll find cup-holders all over the place. The Limited model has a handy pull-out vacuum hose...which I'll describe more below. As with the cup-holders, there are numerous cubby-holes and storage compartments (both molded-in and covered/pull-out) all over the dash and cabin. Most of the upholders and cubby-compartments are lined with rubber or felt-material so you don't have to listen to things in them rattle or shake (the interiors of many Chrysler-built minivans themselves, of course, start to rattle and shake enough as it is when time and miles start to build up on them LOL). The steering wheel whether in the standard vinyl-covering or leather-wrapped, felt nice, and seemed well-designed in its ergonomics and controls. The stereo sound quality was excellent...bordering on superb. Headroom, front and rear, without a sunroof, was OK for someone my size, though not quite as roomy as one would expect from a minivan....the roof might (?) have been lowered an inch or so as a styling-concession. Legroom, likewise, was OK front and rear for tall people, though part of it depended on where the front seats were adjusted. The 3rd-row seats, though not suitable for someone my size, are OK for smaller adults, and, of course, for some older children.....they aren't quite as tight as some 3rd-row seats that I've seen. The interior trim is available in basically two colors....monotone Black or Alloy (very light gray) cloth or leather....I thought the light gray, as with most two-tones, looked much better. And, even if the Stow-N-Go seat-folding mechanisms can be a little stiff or awkward at times, they still beat the features on some of the Pacifica's competitors.




CARGO COMPARTMENT/TRUNK:

Some versions of the Pacifica come with a feature first used on the Ford Escape.....a kick-open power-liftback that senses when you sweep your foot under the bumper and automatically raises the hatch....a handy feature if you have your hands full of bags or packages. On the Pacifica, it also automatically unlatches the twin sliding side-doors....which might compromise the security of small kids sitting in the back seat if shady characters are around, so I'm not sure of that part of it is a good idea. I didn't delve deep into the Owners' Manual to see if the sliding-door part of it could be disconnected by the dealership, but it might be a good issue to consider.

Inside, you have the (usual) high level of minivan-cargo space. The rather plush-feeling black carpeting on the floor and the chrome metal (not plastic) tie-down cargo-hooks are ice features. The walls are covered in a somewhat soft-feel plastic. The specs on this are a little unclear, but it appears that, inside a compartment on the left wall, depending on model and trim/package version, you get your choice of no spare at all, an inflatable temporary-spare (an air-pump is provided with that option), or a built-in vacuum-cleaner and pull-out hose on the Limited model. Again, I didn't tear the vacuum cleaner apart itself to see if it required regular filter or bag-changes like many vacuums do. The third-row Stow-N-Go seats, of course, fold down under the floor to add to the cargo space....the 3rd-row folding operation is a little easier, overall, than the several-stage operation for the 2nd-row seats.




ON THE ROAD:

Except for one or two small rattles from the questionable dash hardware, I found the Pacifica's road-manners, IMO, be noticeably better than the overall static-review....what it lacks in fit/finish and build-quality (at least with early-production versions) it at least partially makes up for behind the wheel. Start up the 3.6L Pentastar V6 with a nice button, and the engine settles into a generally smooth and refined idle. On the road, the engine has enough power for most normal driving, though I admittedly didn't have the van heavily loaded. The engine's 262 ft-lbs. of torque, though, has its its work cut out for it in a vehicle of this size and weight (even with some of the lightweight parts on it), so don't expect drag-strip performance....perhaps this is one reason why Chrysler doesn't offer the added weight and drag of AWD like Toyota does on the Sienna. The engine remains fairly quiet on the road except for some moderate exhaust-chuffle on acceleration.

Much has been written in the auto press and in Consumer Reports reviews about the Jeep/Chrysler 9-speed automatic transmission being mismatched with the engine in a number of vehicles where it is used. I didn't particularly notice any drivability problems with it in this instance. The transmission itself was smooth and quiet, IMO shifting seamlessly....but the rotary-shifter for it is awful. There are neither paddles nor a bump-lever mechanism to downshift...you simply twist the rotary-**** from D to L, the transmission jumps out of the top four overdrive gears and, without a visible gear-indicator on the dash, leaves you wondering which cog you are actually in......ditto for upshifts. Overall, this is a nice driving van on the road, but IMO the engineers need to dump this POS of a shifter immediately and put in something that gives the driver more control. Yes, it can be done in only one year.....Honda, for example, did an emergency redesign of the Civic's whole interior in just one year (2013) when the 2012 Civic's poorly-done interior proved unacceptable to many buyers.

The chassis, though, like the drivetrain, is well-done. Steering is quick and responsive by minivan standards, requiring only a quick flick of the wrist for even some sharper turns.....no, not a Mazda Miata, but quite good by minivan standards. There is some noticeably body roll, but that is to be expected in a vehicle of this height and center of gravity....and it is FAR better than some past minivans I've sampled from years ago, that plowed and rolled like beach *****. Wind noise control is generally good, though I think that, on my test vehicle at least, it would have been still better had some of the rubber weatherstripping on the doors/windows (which I mentioned above) been installed a little more carefully. Road/tire noise was also generally low, though, from my memory at least, it didn't seem quite as hushed as it was on the last Town & Country I had driven, several years ago...this one, of course, had different wheels/tires. Ride comfort is generally good with the 17" wheels and tall 65-series tires used on the Touring version....it could be expected to be a little stiffer with the larger wheels and lower-profile tires on more upmarket versions. The brakes were well-done. The pedal was responsive, with little or no sponginess/free-play (almost like a German sports-sedan), and the pedal-mount was at an almost perfect height, in relation to the gas pedal, for me to move by circus-clown side-15 shoe from gas to brake without it catching on the side of the brake pedal.



THE VERDICT:

I'll give this vehicle high marks (by minivan standards) for its driving/road-manners, and for some of its convenience features but, overall, I'm not terribly impressed with the rest of it, at least until maybe some of the assembly-line issues get worked out with time and experience. It's reasonably driver-oriented (except for the lousy shifter) and comfortable at the same time....in the front seats at least. It's got a good wide dealer network for parts/service The 5/100 drivetrain warranty (3/36 for the rest of the vehicle) suits those who tend to rack up a lot of miles quickly, such as with a lot of long trips (long trips, of course, is one of the reasons that a lot of larger families buy a minivan in the first place). On the road, the Pacifica, shifter aside, competes very well with its main competitors....Kia Sedona, Toyota Sienna, and Honda Odyssey.

But the other three minivans seem noticeably better in overall build quality, though the Toyota Sienna could use some better trim-materials and hardware inside. And, as mentioned previously, the Sienna offers AWD.....the others don't. And The Pacifica's rear seats, IMO, could use more padding, though, that might compromise the Stow-N-Go function some. However, when the Pacifica's plug-in Hybrid version debuts, it will have an ace in the whole (and much better gas mileage) that the other three minivans don't.

And, of course................RIP (Rest in Peace) to the Dodge Caravan, what would have been the Pacifica's new stablemate. After 33 years (and one of the original minivan nameplates), it is riding (or rather, driving) off into the sunset.

As always......Happy car-shopping.

MM

LexusBC

Wonderful review. If we needed to get a minivan again, this would be the one even though I hate Chrysler products. Out of them all, I like the styling of this one the best.

Thank you.

mmarshall

Glad you enjoyed it. That's why I do them.

This was an unusual review in one sense. Unlike in many cases, the dealership actually wanted me to put more test-miles on it than I actually did. But I just put on what I felt I needed for an accurate assessment of its road-manners.

Yes, styling is what seems to be attracting a number of the auto-press reviews of this vehicle.

If you are seriously considering one, I'd do one of two things, though. Either wait a few months and see if they get the early-production bugs out of the assembly-line, or, if you do buy one now, inspect it carefully and be prepared for the possibility of minor repairs and adjustments.

Among current Chrysler products, BTW, the Jeep Grand Cherokee and non-Hemi Chrysler 300s impress me the most. The JGC has a stunning interior and a superb drivetrain, and reliability, though once shaky, seems to be improving some. The Hemi and SRT-8 versions of the Chrysler 300, of course, have a lot more power than the V6, but ride a little too stiff for my taste.....the V6 model has softer suspension and tires.

Fizzboy7

Excellent review and well worth the read.

I've have to be the first to step up and say the styling will not age well. If one looks through the swoopiness, they'll find the same front end as the 200- a car that failing in the market and supposedly about to be discontinued. It's never a good idea to copy the styling an of unsuccessful car. Also, the rest of the auto-world is moving on to sharp and angular, edgy styling. Swoopiness and round curves are actual out. Chrysler will really see this three years from now when the other vans redesign themselves and leave this new model in the dust. It will happen, like it has with the past few generations.

I'm sad to hear there are already quality faults seen. If they are popping up this early, it's only going to get worse. The day Chyrsler hops up it's quality will be the day they start gaining more credibility and market share. In the meantime, they still offer a competiitive package. It's just not all the way baked- the same thing that's brought them down for a few generations.

mmarshall

Thanks.

I see enough new 200s around here, in this area, but I'm not sure, though, whether its problem nationally is the 200 itself (which IMO is a pretty nice car, minus that silly rotary-shifter) or whether it is simply being eclipsed and overshadowed by big-brother 300 which gets so much hype in the marketplace.


Keep in mind, though, that that the kind of slip-ups that I found on samples of the new, early-production Pacificas were generally small and cosmetic.....probably not the kind of things that are going to leave you stranded on the side of the road or see things on the vehicle going up in smoke. It is not unusual for a totally brand-new design to have a few teething problems on the assembly-line until they can fine-tune a few things and work out unforeseen problems. That can happen with any automaker, not just FCA, though, of course, FCA is generally not known for having particularly reliable vehicles....their brands, in general, tend to rank down towards the bottom end of reliability charts. Still, any random vehicle from any automaker can turn out to be either a cream-puff or a lemon.

TangoRed

If it's fit/finish issues like MMarshall is saying, then reality will be the complete opposite of what you're saying. From the Mercedes C-class all the to the Lincoln MKZ, I've never seen production quality get worse after the initial run.

Still disappointing to hear regardless. Hope they tighten that up soon.

mmarshall

From what I saw, it was not serous stuff....mostly cosmetic. Trim, chrome, weatherstripping, a couple of Ill-fitting parts inside, possibly a slightly misaligned door or two (door alignment accuracy is often checked with lasers on modern vehicles). Those kind of teething problems, while not universal, are not unusual on an all-new vehicle, particularly from Chrysler.

Contrast that, for example, with most of the Chrysler products I went to high school and college with (late 60s, early 70s). They could make a good engine and automatic transmission, but little else. You might find dozens of issues on just one particular car. I can remember doors that would barely shut at all, fit-panel gaps large enough to stick one's fingers hrough, arm-rest attachments that just fell right down on the floor, paint jobs of kitchen-appliance gloss, light bulbs that popped out of their sockets, rain leaks in the interior, steering wheels way off center, speedometer cables that vibrated/ticked and snapped, distorted glass.......you name it. One car I saw had Dodge trim on one side and Plymouth on the other (they were usually built in the same plant). It sometimes took months of repairs/adjustments to get all the bugs out of a new Chrysler product. Ford and GM were somewhat better, but they could also have significant defects as well.

Fizzboy7

Generally and historically speaking, new vehicles which display slight to medium quality issues at release usually end up proving to be troublesome and unreliable. This is basing about 40 years of Consumer Report statistics. They need to benchmark Honda and luxury brands if they want to find credibility and work themselves out of the hole they are in.

mmarshall

Luxury brands, though, aren't always reliable themselves. Land Rover and Jaguar, for example, have a long history of being in the shop more than on the road. Audis, though vastly improved today, had a bad reputation up till just a few yard ago. Mercedes and BMW vehicles had electrical issues for some time. And our own Cadiillac and Lincoln models are all below average in reliability, according to Consumer Reports.

Fizzboy7

It is implied to copy the reliable luxury brands. The template is there.

mmarshall

OK...thanks for the clarification. I agree with you on that one.

mmarshall

Next planned reviews: 2017 Cadillac XT5, CT6, Lincoln Continental

Some new XT5s have been ordered and are on their way to the D.C. area, but have not been delivered yet.