Yes the competition has caught up no doubt, however not sure if that has lessened the enthusiast appeal for products like Tacoma or Prius. Tacoma especially has a very strong enthusiast base.

 

+1

Jill, you didn't thoroughly test drive a CT before buying one? you would've immediately known about the acceleration, or lack thereof, as well as noise levels when driving.... two of the biggest factors....

as far as being smaller inside than a Matrix.... again, a simple pop of the hatch of the CT would have shown you the size before you bought.

 

Prius enthusiasts are not car enthusiasts, they're technology enthusiasts. I know because I posted on the Prius forums for 7 years. What appeals to them is very different from what appeals to someone who enjoys cars.

 

I don't think your iPhone comparison is any way relevant, or correct. The iPhone sells for a big premium compared to other phones. And almost any smartphone on the market can do what an iPhone does.

 

The idea that the Tacoma and 4runner were ahead of the competition before the last models is wrong. Most Toyota models were always middle of the pack, Toyota/Lexus had some serious HP catching up to do in the 1990s. Toyota models consistently finished middle of the pack in within the Car Magazines. I do remember Lexus at the time was finishing #1 compared to the rivals is a lot of situations, but that is not the case today.

That is ironic. And even more strange is that the Mazda rebadged Yaris starts at $16,995 wheras the Corolla starts at $15,995 in Canada.

 

I don't really care what car magazines have to say. I go out and experience cars for myself and form my own conclusions as opposed to just regurgitating somebody else's conclusions. If you went out in the mid to late 90s and sat in a Toyota, and sat in the competition the difference in quality was significant with the advantage to Toyota. Look at the 4Runner in the mid 90s compared to what else was out there in that segment, I know because we were buyers in that segment in 1995 and 1997. We chose the Explorer each time because it was bigger and American, but the quality of a 4 Runner vs anything else was apparent.

Nowadays when you go out and you make the same comparison, the difference still exists except that quite frankly almost everything in a segment feels more solid and premium than any Toyota. That's a big change, and I think it's a real shame.

Yes they're still reliable, but everything else is much more reliable than it used to be. I think Toyota recognizes this because they've made a lot of strides towards making their cars better in other areas again, just look at the last generation Highlander to this one as a great example. Rav 4 too. They have a ways to go still.

Really though, between say 2007-2013 or so IMHO Toyota was making the worst interiors in the business.

 

While there are some exceptions, I have to basically agree. IMO, among new Toyotas, the latest Avalon, in particular, is especially disappointing. It may look nice on the surface with its polished-trim inside and nicely-done paint job. But sit in it, examine it closely, and you will find many super-thin-grade materials, some of them not even particularly well-attached. They also stiffened the ride on the initial version so much over previous models that, for 2016, all of the non-Touring models now have a mid-cycle revision.....a little more give in the suspension.

 

you missed my point completely. nokia was THE cell phone company for a long time, then blackberry was THE 'smart-er' phone company, and both got BLOWN AWAY by the iphone that invented a whole new category. sure android is competitive today, but that wasn't my point. also, iphones on payment plan here are almost no different in price vs. any other premium phone. see here, iphone 6s and samsung s7 same price: http://www.verizonwireless.com/smartphones/

my point is, delivering 'what customers expect' can leave a company vulnerable to being blindsided by someone else delivering what the customer didn't even know they would want until it existed.

toyota's conservative and safe nature has lead to hyundai/kia's (and even subaru's) meteoric rise as they took lots of risks. honda clearly lost its way entirely for about a decade too. both toyota and honda are now fighting back hard (i'd say honda even more so) which is great to see.

 

I didn't miss your point at all. The iPhone caught on and changed cell phones and how the mass view them . Nothing is going to change getting from point A to point B. A phone call or a text message on an iPhone or a Nokia is still an phone call or a text message. A Google Nexus 5 which I use ($349) does everything an $799 iPhone can do. An iPhone is also very expensive smart phone that is not the most advanced cell phone on the market. It is something that is very popular. To use iPhone and then mention Hyundai later on in your post is one of the strangest things I have heard.

A Toyota Corolla gets one from A-B with as little fuss as possible. A Toyota is reliable, easy to use and provides satisfaction that is usually a little higher (for the Toyota buyer) than the rest of the competitors in a given segment.

 

Its bizarre that you do not like the Avalon in either this generation or the last. Both are fine $30-$35k Toyota's. You are probably the only person that I have seen that has dismissed the current Avalon interior and the last Avalon rode nice and wallowy like you yearned for time and time again. I am convinced that it might have something to do with your love of Buick, and IMO and many others, the last two Avalons were the best Buicks ever, only they were made by Toyota.

 

Subaru is Toyota :-)

Honda is not doing well but is doing something about it, just few years late.

Toyota is doing the best in their history.

Your story was relevant 10 years ago - and we had trade magazines full of such "concerns". Even here on CL, we had tons of stories about how everyone will switch from Toyota and Lexus to Hyundai.

Hyundai and KIA today are serious brands, and they are not "upcoming" anymore. They have their own problems with declining profits and questionable reliability which led to re-shuffling of executives last year. As to them taking customers from Toyota, it seems that they have taken it from "local" brands such as GM/Ford/C in the USA and PSA/Ford/Opel in the Europe not Toyota.

As to the Corolla, this is likely the best Corolla in the history. Good prices, very good build quality, good engines, competent handling, great equipment levels (leading the class in many cases), large and comfy. It is very nice vehicle and hence people are buying them in record numbers today.

Only thing it is missing is hot hatch, but why in the world would you get Corolla hot hatch when there is a GT 86 and WRX? It makes no sense, market for those is dwindling. Instead of doing crazy things with Corolla they will build few more SUVs that everyone wants.

 

Well, Jill, With all due respect, whether you approve or not, my opinion of the present Avalon stands....and will stand. It has nothing to do whatsoever with my opinion of Buick...and, for that matter, there are several Buick models, BTW, that I don't think very highly of. And, as for the present Avalon, it wasn't necessarily my complaints that forced Toyota into a suspension-softening for 2016. Do you actually think that Toyota would spend the time and money to redesign a suspension, mid-cycle, just because some dude from CL named marshall doesn't like the way it rides? LOL. It was the Avalon owners themselves. ...those who actually bought and paid money for the car. Your beef is with THEM, not with me.

 

Fair enough, I just thought I would point out my observation.

 

Also understand..........I was not trying to be rude. Also just trying to make a point on my side.

 

No worries.