Lexus LC News
The stigma of prestiage won't go away until 1) Lexus stops playing the value game 2) Throw every engineering know how into their cars like thei 1st gen LS 3)Up the engine and power game 4) Heritage. Lexus needs to do something that's world beating and unforgettable. To give them their own everlasting identity. 5) Stop platform sharing with Toyota.
These days, what can one car company do that the other can't? It comes down to cost and how much the customer is willing to pay for a lesser nameplate with the same or better features.
These days, what can one car company do that the other can't? It comes down to cost and how much the customer is willing to pay for a lesser nameplate with the same or better features.
What platform sharing?
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,624
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From: Maryland
Originally Posted by Ice350
The LFA was a world car.
What platform sharing?
What platform sharing?
I agree that in order to really put that stigma behind it they should stop doing that. I do recognize that from a business reality standpoint it makes no sense
Pole Position
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,602
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From: Singapore
As if driver's dont have enough distractions on the road with smartphones and twitter and FB and stuff. The last thing they need is information overload going at high speeds. All they need is really the speedo, nav, maybe RPM gauge and gear if they want to shift manually.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 845
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From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by SW15LS
What platform sharing? The ES, NX, RX (the bulk of all Lexus sales) are all on transverse FWD economy Toyota platforms.
I agree that in order to really put that stigma behind it they should stop doing that. I do recognize that from a business reality standpoint it makes no sense
I agree that in order to really put that stigma behind it they should stop doing that. I do recognize that from a business reality standpoint it makes no sense
Pole Position
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,602
Likes: 89
From: Singapore
Cmon guys,this debate has outgrown its lifespan.
I'm more interested in discussion where we speculate how many people are going to pony up 100K for the car.
The RCF and GSF have revealed to me that customer don't want to pay a premium for Lexus performance. We enthusiasts begged for performance and now that its here no one want to pay for it. But people are asking for even more performance, which will cost even more.
Explain this to me.
I'm more interested in discussion where we speculate how many people are going to pony up 100K for the car.
The RCF and GSF have revealed to me that customer don't want to pay a premium for Lexus performance. We enthusiasts begged for performance and now that its here no one want to pay for it. But people are asking for even more performance, which will cost even more.
Explain this to me.
The LC500 has no such expectations placed on it. It's main competition, the 650i/CLS500 are of similar hp/performance.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
Lexus by comparison basically uses the entire platform, powertrain, everything on their volume vehicles. If you look at Lexus sales, nearly 80% of their sales are cars that ride on economy transverse Camry derived platforms, the clearest of which is the ES, but also is true of the NX, RX, CT...the GX is a rebadged Toyota Land Cruiser Prado, which is an overseas vehicle but it shares a platform with vehicles such as the Toyota 4Runner, Toyota FJ. The Lexus LX is basically a rebadged Toyota Land Cruiser. I don't so much see the trucks as being an issue, really its mostly the volume vehicles being so closely related to their Toyota cousins.
And like I said...this is unlikely to change. Toyota makes a ton of money selling these cars and they're very well regarded, but it will always hold them back to some extent.
The only luxury brands that participate in the sort of platform sharing Lexus does to that same extent are near luxury brands like Lincoln (although they are on another level of it), Buick, Acura...etc. That will always be a ***** in Lexus' armor when it comes to being compared as true peers to cars like Mercedes, BMW, Audi...
Last edited by SW17LS; Nov 16, 2016 at 08:00 PM.
Lead Lap
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From: NY
Pole Position
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 360
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From: SG
Audi doesn't share platforms the same way that Lexus shares platforms. Audi platforms by and large are Audi specific, and even in their FWD cars (mostly) you see proper longitudinal engine layouts. Save the really low end Audis, pretty much everything is on the MLB platform which is an Audi platform save for the Bentley Bentayga, Porsche Macan and the VW Toureg. The lower end Audis, namely the A3 and TT are on the MQB platform which is shared with the VW Golf, a bunch of Seat and Skoda models, and Passat. These Audis have a transverse engine layout.
Lexus by comparison basically uses the entire platform, powertrain, everything on their volume vehicles. If you look at Lexus sales, nearly 80% of their sales are cars that ride on economy transverse Camry derived platforms, the clearest of which is the ES, but also is true of the NX, RX, CT...the GX is a rebadged Toyota Land Cruiser Prado, which is an overseas vehicle but it shares a platform with vehicles such as the Toyota 4Runner, Toyota FJ. The Lexus LX is basically a rebadged Toyota Land Cruiser. I don't so much see the trucks as being an issue, really its mostly the volume vehicles being so closely related to their Toyota cousins.
And like I said...this is unlikely to change. Toyota makes a ton of money selling these cars and they're very well regarded, but it will always hold them back to some extent.
The only luxury brands that participate in the sort of platform sharing Lexus does to that same extent are near luxury brands like Lincoln (although they are on another level of it), Buick, Acura...etc. That will always be a ***** in Lexus' armor when it comes to being compared as true peers to cars like Mercedes, BMW, Audi...
Lexus by comparison basically uses the entire platform, powertrain, everything on their volume vehicles. If you look at Lexus sales, nearly 80% of their sales are cars that ride on economy transverse Camry derived platforms, the clearest of which is the ES, but also is true of the NX, RX, CT...the GX is a rebadged Toyota Land Cruiser Prado, which is an overseas vehicle but it shares a platform with vehicles such as the Toyota 4Runner, Toyota FJ. The Lexus LX is basically a rebadged Toyota Land Cruiser. I don't so much see the trucks as being an issue, really its mostly the volume vehicles being so closely related to their Toyota cousins.
And like I said...this is unlikely to change. Toyota makes a ton of money selling these cars and they're very well regarded, but it will always hold them back to some extent.
The only luxury brands that participate in the sort of platform sharing Lexus does to that same extent are near luxury brands like Lincoln (although they are on another level of it), Buick, Acura...etc. That will always be a ***** in Lexus' armor when it comes to being compared as true peers to cars like Mercedes, BMW, Audi...
So Lexus isn't really pitched at the same category as the Germans, but is carefully pitched between them and Buick, Lincoln etc. Which maybe why it has worked hard on showroom appeal but the performance limitations that come from its platform sharing doesn't really hurt it. All it needed is a few halo models as linkage to the available models, to bolster the performance credentials, but maybe for most Lexus owners, the performance just isn't important. How many here, for instance would be interested in the Alfa renaissance?
Some Euros are moving up the reliability scales, in particular Audi. If that is proved accurate in the field, then there isn't really much more reason to stay with Lexus. And it also seems like for the Buick class there is real opportunity here to provide a performance alternative to Lexus, but in a sense they are now playing the same game, and with the same limitations, with models based on mass market Opels. A rock and a hard place it seems for Lexus performance enthusiasts.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
No Lexus' intention has always been to be considered as a peer to BMW, Mercedes etc. Having owned a lot of them, both platform engineered cars like the ES and the premium platform cars like the LS and GS, IMHO there are two Lexuses. The Toyota platform cars IMHO really don't compare to what you see from those companies, yet the premium platform cars certainly do.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 845
Likes: 21
From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by SW15LS
No Lexus' intention has always been to be considered as a peer to BMW, Mercedes etc. Having owned a lot of them, both platform engineered cars like the ES and the premium platform cars like the LS and GS, IMHO there are two Lexuses. The Toyota platform cars IMHO really don't compare to what you see from those companies, yet the premium platform cars certainly do.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,424
Likes: 369
From: ON/NY
For overseas markets we never realised this and it makes real sense, thank you.
So Lexus isn't really pitched at the same category as the Germans, but is carefully pitched between them and Buick, Lincoln etc. Which maybe why it has worked hard on showroom appeal but the performance limitations that come from its platform sharing doesn't really hurt it. All it needed is a few halo models as linkage to the available models, to bolster the performance credentials, but maybe for most Lexus owners, the performance just isn't important. How many here, for instance would be interested in the Alfa renaissance?
Some Euros are moving up the reliability scales, in particular Audi. If that is proved accurate in the field, then there isn't really much more reason to stay with Lexus. And it also seems like for the Buick class there is real opportunity here to provide a performance alternative to Lexus, but in a sense they are now playing the same game, and with the same limitations, with models based on mass market Opels. A rock and a hard place it seems for Lexus performance enthusiasts.
So Lexus isn't really pitched at the same category as the Germans, but is carefully pitched between them and Buick, Lincoln etc. Which maybe why it has worked hard on showroom appeal but the performance limitations that come from its platform sharing doesn't really hurt it. All it needed is a few halo models as linkage to the available models, to bolster the performance credentials, but maybe for most Lexus owners, the performance just isn't important. How many here, for instance would be interested in the Alfa renaissance?
Some Euros are moving up the reliability scales, in particular Audi. If that is proved accurate in the field, then there isn't really much more reason to stay with Lexus. And it also seems like for the Buick class there is real opportunity here to provide a performance alternative to Lexus, but in a sense they are now playing the same game, and with the same limitations, with models based on mass market Opels. A rock and a hard place it seems for Lexus performance enthusiasts.