SW17LS

Less incredible in person

mmarshall

After sampling the N/A 3.6L, a perfectly adequate power plant in this car, a V8 probably isn't needed, but I agree with you would be nice. What I find rather distasteful, though, is the CT6's standard 2.0T four. IMO, there is no reason a VW Jetta powerplant should be standard in a Cadillac flagship. (OK, gas mileage, maybe). Even its unimpressive XTS predecessor avoided that. Lincoln (wisely, IMO) also avoided that, and gave even the base Continental a N/A 3.7L V6....with about the same torque level (but a little less HP) than the Caddy's optional 3.6L

Now, I understand that the CT6s turbo 4 will get out of its own way, but fours still don't offer the smoothness and refinement of a V6.

Because of the rubber boot on the shifter? I know that is one of your pet peeves.

(no problem....I've got my pet peeves, too).

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

luxury isn't about need, it's about want.

Toys4RJill

I am perplexed at your negative comments about the CT6. It's the best Cadillac GM has ever built. The 2.0T is strictly for CAFE, low entry point pricing and the fact that the CT6 was built to overlap the midsize and large full size luxury segment. The CT6 weighs less than many mid size cars and the 2.0T was the right choice for those who want it. There is after a 400hp V6 is that is your fancy. An the GS now has a 2.0t and so does the E class. I bet you would not be able to tell the difference. The real tragedy of the CT6 is not that car is offered with a 4 cylinder, it's the fact that the Hybrid will be built in China and sent to North America....that is just such a sad tragedy for an American nameplate such as Cadillac.

Aron9000

^ With GM deciding to build their "flagship" in China, it really tells you a good bit about where the automotive market is heading. And where GM is heading, sadly the US will no longer be their top priority, they've figured out there will be a much larger market in China 5, 10 years from now. And I will give GM some credit, they have a very strong following in China, and have had one for years with Buick. Still a complete load of bull**** that they won't build their flagship Cadillac in the US, I can't think of a more American nameplate than Cadillac.

Personally I think the new CT6 was designed specifically with the Chinese market in mind, thus the sort of weird in-between size of not quite an S class and just a bit bigger than the CTS, E-class, A6, etc GM has sold a similar Cadillac in China before, it was called the SLS. Basically a stretched wheelbase version of the mid-size, 2005-2011 RWD STS sold here, with a much nicer interior than the American version as well. Keep in mind chauffer driven cars in China are a big deal, and the market over there is not in favor of the really big and expensive S class, A8, 750i, the Chinese buy the A6, E-class, and 5 series. All of those midsize cars are available with a stretched wheelbase for more rear seat leg room.

mmarshall

Check again. My sources show that the CT6 is built in Detroit's Hamtramck Assembly Plant.

Well, you could try Ford. Henry Ford himself perfected the mass-production of a simple automobile and literally put the American public on wheels. In Germany, Hitler was jealous of what Ford had accomplished. That was where his idea for the original VW air-cooled Beetle came from.....to put the German public on wheels in a similar fashion.

Aron9000

I was referring to the upcoming CT6 Hybrid which will be built in China. Still boils my blood as an old school Cadillac man.

Ford is a very American nameplate, but also a very different company in Europe. Ford of Europe has sold a completely different line of cars from what Ford in the USA has sold up until Ford announced its "1 Ford" initiative back in 2007, since then Ford has declared it will sell the same basic car in all markets, with different engines and trim options suited to local tastes. I can think of a bunch of unique smaller sized Ford of Europe cars from back in the 70's/80's/90's/00's that were simply kick *** performers or great economy cars, while we were stuck with dreadful Pintos, Escorts(we were stuck with a crappy version of the Escort while Europe got a much nicer car), the Taurus, fox body Mustangs(which were fast but ugly and crude), the American spec 2nd gen Focus(YUCK!!!!), wallowing Crown Vics, etc.

mmarshall

I agree that I'd rather see the hybrid built here with American labor. But, judging from what I saw of the Buick Envision, Chinese plants can produce a vehicle screwed together just as well as those from any other country. I was quite impressed with the general overall build-quality of the Envision, but the materials exuded a funny odor inside (not the usual new car smell), and the seats seemed designed more for smaller Asians than big burly Americans.

Don't forget, though.....the original 1986 Taurus was a landmark product. It completely revolutionized the way that mid-sized family sedans were designed and built. And, if you will ask almost any police officer today, most of those officers and State Troopers who are no longer driving Crown Vics wish they had them back. (some Vics, of course, still remain in service),

Toys4RJill

Completely unacceptable IMO. A flagship vehicle under the Cadillac brand should not under any circumstance be imported from China. At least it is only going to be the hybrid model.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

better get used to it. the chinese tidal wave is coming. not sure why japanese, korean, or even german flagships are ok but chinese made ones aren't?

mmarshall

I agree I'd rather see the CT6 Hybrid built here with American labor, but the labor costs are obviously lower in China, and Cadillac, very much aware of Buick's major success in China, seems to want a piece of the action themselves.

I'm not necessarily going to drag this thread off into politics, but I think it bears mention that Trump, if he wins this fall, wants to slap tariffs (possibly up to 35%) on the goods that American companies produce overseas (with foreign labor) and then turn around and import back here for sale....that, of course, among a number of other vehicles, would include the Buick Envision and Cadillac CT6 Hybrid. His view is....if a company or corporation profiteers by taking jobs away from American labor, they're going to pay for it, one way or another...the free ride is over

Toys4RJill

If the German, Korean or Japanese flagships are built in China then it is completely unacceptable. I understand why Toyota and now Ford have moved their smaller cars to Mexico, this is because it is too difficult to make the cheaper cars in the US or Canada. But a $75K CT6 hybrid should be able to be built in the USA alongside the gas models.

Not sure why you think it is OK?

mmarshall

......until Trump slaps a big tariff on American-badged vehicles that are built overseas and sold here.

(see my response to Jill above)

Probably because they haven't screwed us as much by devaluing their currency or breaking trade-rules the way the Chinese have.

mmarshall

I don't see where the price of the vehicle, whether it is a flagship or not, really matters that much. Whether it is a 15K econobox or a 300K mega-luxury vehicle, the basic ethical principle is the same.....industry which belongs in this country (or Canada) is being lost to overseas plants. Either Canadian (in your case) or American workers lose their jobs.........they are just as unemployed, either way, whether they were building cheap or expensive vehicles before.

Toys4RJill

The price matters in that it is difficult to build a smaller Focus in the US or Canada than it is in Mexico. In the case of Toyota, moving the Corolla to Mexico allows them to make a higher priced car in Canada.

In the case of the CT6, there should no excuse to build it in China.