j three

I sat in this thing at the LA auto show and the interior is killer! Much nicer than the equus. Better wood trim styling and seat stitching. Outside the rear looks like a total rip from the LS460. Overall this car will be a nice pick up in 4 years! :-)

yowps3

But why doesn't Hyundai do what Lexus did in 1989? Build a mind boggling car that absolutely vanquished the competition in every conceivable aspect at a big discount price.

Until then Hyundai/Kia are not top class brands

All they do are half cooked sub par cars



70k for that LOL ^^

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Spend $60+K and see that KIA logo on the steering wheel.

Not a fan of the K900 at all.

SW17LS

I understand the facts of the car, and I understand and can appreciate its a lot of car for the money, I've said that.

I'm just saying that even for me, someone who can pick out the exact model and even year of a car from 200 feet at night just by the design of the taillights...I have to look at the K900 for a minute to see it isn't an Optima. It doesn't look like a flagship to me....where the Equus does. It has that "big body" look that an LS has, a 7 Series has, an A8 has, and certainly an S Class has. That look GREATLY appeals to me and I know it when I see it, this car doesn't have it. People see the Equus and say "Wow, what is that?" people see this and think its an Optima. Theres a difference.

I think to me the issue is Kia is using their design language on this car that is shared with not only an Optima...but on down the line in the Forte and the Rio...while Hyundai has the good sense to not share design language with the Equus/Genesis and the rest of their lineup.

If I could get past the brand, I would absolutely buy an Equus. Even without the brand issue I just wouldn't buy this car. Has zero appeal to me.

Kinda stodgy sells in this class.

I had this conversation with my friends when I went with them, fellow luxury car owners (one owns BMWs, the other MBs). "A heck of a deal" is a relative thing. Sure, $15,000 seems like a lot of money. BUT...when you're in the $60k+ range, what is $15,000? A car of this price level is a luxury purchase, a purchase that is made not out of necessity but out of desire. If I'm going to spend $60k...I'm going to buy something I really desire...and thats not a Kia...no matter how great it might be. Thats my issue with the Equus...the only appeal is that its at a more accessible price point to me than an LS...but the LS is what I actually want.

Anyways...how will the K900 hold up resale wise? The Equus hasn't. That $15,000 between a K900 and an LS can be cut to nothing in 3 years real quick.

1111GS

They had quite a few of these at Houston Auto Show. I sat in one to see how it feels. The seats feel more like the LS type. Although the interior has all the bells and whistles, to me, it's not quite a luxurious vehicle. I feel the red light around the switches and overall design make the car look/feel cheap. Steve, I think your GS's interior is nicer and looks more luxurious. It pleases the eyes when you sit inside. It's a nice (Korean) car but I personally would not pay the price for this car, esp. with the Kia logo. I do like the sun roof though.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

same comments are made about all the luxury brands... we hear the 'same sausage, different lengths' over and over on here for example.

damned if they do, damned if they don't - if it looked like you want, maybe then people would be saying they wouldn't buy a car that 'fancy' from a kia dealer. i get though that you're not impressed by this car, no problem there. i don't think it's supposed to turn the world on its ear... but i think hyundai/toyota is taking the 'tortoise' approach... slowly showing they can produce sophisticated cars, even if they're not best in class.

i doubt many (have you?) seen a k900 on the road yet. i highly doubt i will think it's an optima, being so much bigger.

bear in mind price was a BIG reason the original LS400 did so well. the other reason was excellent fit/finish/refinement, great new dealer network, and (really important) EXCELLENT big marketing campaign.

maybe so but i know a LOT of wealthy people who could buy any car they want and they're still 'cheap'.

ok so price might influence you. which is it. everyone has different price sensitivity.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

maybe they put those portholes on the side to appeal to the buick owner.

SW17LS

True, but not from me. If you look back through my posts here you will see that I'm really fair when it comes to things like this. For me to take this stance have confidence I feel strongly about it.

I and the people in both groups I went with thought it was an Optima sitting up on a rotating stage at the car show...

Price was a big reason, but they had a lot of other things going for them. The car truly was BETTER for less. This is not better...its just less. Fit and finish aren't better, not even quite there. No dealer network, no brand. Marketing? An ad at the Super Bowl using a movie that came out 15 years ago as a basis? I'm dubious. I was around when Lexus came out, my dad almost bought one of the first LS400s. At least you were buying into a brand that had some meaning, some mission statement. There might not have been heritage, but the relentless pursuit of perfection, the redefinition of what a luxury car was and what type of service and quality that brought to the table meant something. None of that here. You loose something with that $15,000 savings. You loose the luxury marque, you loose the luxury dealers, you loose the luxury service and support, you loose the high resale value. Something is not a "value" if it costs less and is less. Its only a value if it costs less and is equal or more.

So, all this has going for it is that its cheaper. No comparison to the LS400.

Then why haven't we seen overwhelming Equus sales? Certainly some people will buy this car, but to say its going to become a big player in the flagship sector...I don't see that. 3,000 units a year, sure.

Are your cheap wealthy friends even spending $60k on a car? I know lots of wealthy people that are cheap...they don't understand spending more than $35k.

Price influences everyone, but note I have not bought an Equus or Genesis. I chose a FWD lesser ES over the Genesis. I chose a GS over an LS style Equus for the same money. Like I said, if I'm buying a $60k car...I'm going to buy something I really want and that will bring me pleasure everyday. At least with the Equus and Genesis there is an effort to create a "brand within a brand" where the Hyundai brand and Hyundai design sense is not all over the cars...this is just the flagship Kia...nothing different about their philosophy here its just "a Kia that costs $60,000, and has quality and features to match that price".

I8ABMR

I like it. I think the styling could have been a bit more aggressive but its obvious thats not the segment they are shooting for. Liek they said they are looking for " effortless " luxury.

By the way the 0-60 of 5.5 is equal to the LS460. Has a little more power and torque than the Lexus.

Motor

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

of course i don't know exactly, but my guess is in 1989 the competition was asleep at the switch allowing toyota to make a huge entrance. now i don't think that's the case so i think it would be MUCH harder. toyota's gamble was hugely impressive and justly rewarded! nissan's? not so much. honda's gamble (acura) did well for years but as we all know, it's a bit lost these days and not so impressive, but many of us (including me) had acuras before we moved on to lexus.

i would argue respectfully that lexus is not a 'top class brand' either. their line-up, while having some GREAT vehicles, isn't even close to as broad or high end as mercedes or bmw.

of course the market will decide... but it's not surprising that on a lexus forum the consensus isn't positive. but the fact that we're even having so much passionate discussion about hyundai/kia is a win for them.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i agree this is no LS400 all over again, but that's also because the circumstances are vastly different (the competition is MUCH stronger), so maybe hyundai/kia felt a slow but steady approach was better, who knows.

well as you said, it's not a total 'wow' compared to competition, so maybe even hyundai's expectations weren't that high.

i mean, if the equus had been an LS/S/7 crusher somehow, then the dealer network truly would have been a major issue.

absolutely, and 2x, 3x on it.

again, i get it... it's not 1989 again. but about the LS400 'wow' - maybe we should be speculating can lexus do that again?

SW17LS

+1 on this. Nowadays these cars are SO good...where is there a hole to punch through in the way Lexus did in 1989? You had a lot of weaknesses for Lexus to exploit back then:

1. German cars really being too cold and teutonic for the American consumer
2. German cars really having road feel that was too firm for the American consumer
3. High prices and lack of standard or reasonably attainable V8 power from German brands
4. Arrogant competition
5. A wide chasm between midlevel luxury and flagship luxury (this was huge, and why the LS was not midsize but not quite full-size)
6. Poor dealer service with German brands creating a population of disgruntled owners

There were just a lot of weaknesses to target, and Lexus targeted them all to great success.

Today though, there are a LOT more options for people. The Germans have been "Lexus-ized", you have much more robust entry level and mid level car lines within the luxury brands and near luxury brands. Dealer service is really universally good among luxury marques. Power is everywhere. Where would Hyundai/Kia target to punch through?

The statement that Hyundai/Kia are not top class because they didn't do what Lexus did (which is a very rare thing to have done) is like saying an accomplished scientist is not accomplished because he/she has not won the nobel prize.

This car isn't a total "wow" either. Its like I said, something isn't a great value if you get less for less money. Its just cheaper.

Then I would not classify them as cheap.2x is $130k, 3x is nearly $200k. NOBODY who spends six figures on a car is "cheap".

Do you have any of these friends who would trade their $130k S Classes in on a K900?

mmarshall

Yes...I looked at that same turntable-display, too. Kia, for some reason, chose to display one with the all-black interior, which, IMO, for in a car of this class, looks a little too monochromatic. I understand that, like the smaller Cadenza, the K900 will have two-tone, lighter interiors also available. The Cadenza, for example, has a stunning white-leather option.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

It looks good, but I prefer the equus over this though considering you can get the massage chair in the back

The name k900 is just horrible though