MM Full-Review: 2013 Cadillac XTS
09-07-13, 06:11 PM
#46
Lexus Fanatic
First of all...its not my reasoning...its the dictionary definition of flagship. I did not write the dictionary. I can call an apple a kumquat, but its still an apple.
How do you define "best"? The XTS is more expensive and has more features and equipment. Many people will feel its better. I would choose an XTS over an ATS any day of the week because the ATS is way too small for me. Why is the LS the "best vehicle" at Lexus? Maybe I think my GS is better because its sportier and more fun to drive. Is my GS the Lexus flagship? Maybe the guy who has an LX thinks his LX is better because it seats more people than an LS...it certainly is more expensive than the LS in general. Is the LX Lexus' flagship.
See my point about why there isn't really a clear "flagship" in these lineups anymore?
I did not say Cadillac had no vehicles that compete with Lexus. I said they have no vehicle that competes WITH THE LS
The XTS competes with the ES down lower in the trim range. It blows the ES away down lower in the trim range IMHO.
How do you define "best"? The XTS is more expensive and has more features and equipment. Many people will feel its better. I would choose an XTS over an ATS any day of the week because the ATS is way too small for me. Why is the LS the "best vehicle" at Lexus? Maybe I think my GS is better because its sportier and more fun to drive. Is my GS the Lexus flagship? Maybe the guy who has an LX thinks his LX is better because it seats more people than an LS...it certainly is more expensive than the LS in general. Is the LX Lexus' flagship.
See my point about why there isn't really a clear "flagship" in these lineups anymore?
I did not say Cadillac had no vehicles that compete with Lexus. I said they have no vehicle that competes WITH THE LS
The XTS competes with the ES down lower in the trim range. It blows the ES away down lower in the trim range IMHO.
09-07-13, 06:16 PM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
Don't agree with what?!?
09-07-13, 06:23 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
OK guys, we can argue all day long about the definition of a flagship and who or what this car actually competes against. That's fine, if you want to do it....CAR CHAT knows few boundaries. But that wasn't the main issue I was trying to make in the review, where I typically give only one line to the car's American-market competitors. And yes, I did make some references in the review to the XTS's position as to what could be the new Cadillac "flagship" ..........even if only a temporary one until a (possible) RWD Holden-based Caddy shows up. But my main issue was not to try and glorify the car's position in the Cadillac line-up, but simply describe it in detail from nose to tail (which is what I usually do in reviews).
09-07-13, 06:38 PM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
OK guys, we can argue all day long about the definition of a flagship and who or what this car actually competes against. That's fine, if you want to do it....CAR CHAT knows few boundaries. But that wasn't the main issue I was trying to make in the review, where I typically give only one line to the car's American-market competitors. And yes, I did make some references in the review to the XTS's position as to what could be the new Cadillac "flagship" ..........even if only a temporary one until a (possible) RWD Holden-based Caddy shows up. But my main issue was not to try and glorify the car's position in the Cadillac line-up, but simply describe it in detail from nose to tail (which is what I usually do in reviews).
PS: Keep up the well done and interesting reviews, I look forward to challenging your opinion when I see a need for it.
09-07-13, 08:45 PM
#50
Lexus Test Driver
It's everyone's lucky day! I have figured out Caddy's new harsh ride reasoning. You see, rappers, blingers, **** star producers, pimps, slow-speed police pursuit chasees, Hollywood clubbers, and basketball players all put Landau tops and 22" rims on these things. So the smooth ride of yore doesn't matter. Cadillac knows who's buying their cars. Grandma and grandpa buy ES350's today.
Last edited by Fizzboy7; 09-07-13 at 08:52 PM.
09-08-13, 05:16 PM
#51
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I don't mind anyone questioning me if they have a valid point, as I sometimes do post an error or make an typo. Some things, though, of course, are objective....and can differ in opinion from person to person.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-08-13 at 05:57 PM.
09-08-13, 05:51 PM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Actually, lower-level, non-V versions of the latest CTS are not that harsh....one of the reasons for the car's relative success. IMO, some CTS models ride more comfortably (and quieter) than the new, larger XTS with the 20" wheels.
What percentage of the American population do entertainers and athletes actually represent? Right....not much.
Though I respect your opinion, there are two flaws with it. First, there are a LOT more seniors out there than celebrities, entertainers, or athletes....not only with the existing seniors but the millions of us Baby-Boomers who are becoming seniors and retiring. Second, the ES350 itself (as I also point out below), though still not a true sport-sedan by any means, is noticeably stiffer and noisier today than it was for years. A lot of seniors (and potential ES350 buyers) are probably going to notice that on the test-drive......I certainly did.
I don't agree....to some extent, it still does matter. People who like that type of car (not only Grandpa/Grandma, but actually some younger people who also like that kind of ride)..............just what are they going to buy or lease, outside of the used-car market? Truth is, today, not much....especially at a reasonable price. The Mercedes S-Class clearly does not have a reasonable price for the masses. The Lexus LS460 is not quite as expensive, but still out of the reach of most new car-buyers. All of the big smooth-riding Cadillacs/Lincolns/Buicks are now gone....sacrificed to the altar of sport-orientation. Even the Lexus ES350 is no longer the smooth-riding icon it was for many years. So, at a reasonable price, IMO, that leaves primarily the new 2014 Chevy Impala (which is a VERY impressive-driving car), and its Buick LaCrosse cousin. Neither is quite as floaty as the big GM cars of yore, but still combine what I would call a comfortable ride with reasonably sharp handling. Only time will tell, but, as of now, I think the new Impala is going to be a REAL hit.....and steal a lot of sales from the competition. In a couple of years, when I'm ready for another car, I can guarantee that the Impala will be very high on my list of considerations.
You see, rappers, blingers, **** star producers, pimps, slow-speed police pursuit chasees, Hollywood clubbers, and basketball players all put Landau tops and 22" rims on these things.
Cadillac knows who's buying their cars. Grandma and grandpa buy ES350's today.
so the smooth ride of yore doesn't matter.
09-08-13, 06:47 PM
#53
I'm with Mike! I'm 73 and have more available money than when I was younger. I still love cars and buy a new one every 2 years or so. I usually pay cash and my local Lexus dealer is my preferred dealer. I currently drive an LS460, but have had an RX350 (2010) which I traded due to its stiff ride and road noise. Before that I had a 2008 ES350 UL which was nice, and a 2006 RX400h which was also nice. I'm getting frustrated with Lexus with their trend to sporty, stiff riding, noisy cars. I just drove a new Equis and if I were buying today, I would buy it instead of a Lexus. The dealer was incredible! I called, and they sent a car to my home for a test drive. I could keep the car over night if I wanted. For service, they bring a loaner to my home and return my car at my convenience. This is what Lexus was like when I leased my LS400.
Steve
Steve
09-09-13, 08:51 AM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I'm with Mike!
I'm getting frustrated with Lexus with their trend to sporty, stiff riding, noisy cars. I just drove a new Equis and if I were buying today, I would buy it instead of a Lexus. The dealer was incredible! I called, and they sent a car to my home for a test drive. I could keep the car over night if I wanted. For service, they bring a loaner to my home and return my car at my convenience. This is what Lexus was like when I leased my LS400.
Steve
Give this car a test-drive, especially with the V6 (which I recommend), and I don't think you will be disappointed.
OOPS......just noticed you did check out an Impala in an earlier post. No problem, though....my comments still apply.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-09-13 at 09:34 AM.
09-09-13, 10:17 AM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
I would absolutely never compare an Equus and an Impala. The new Impala is nice, but its nowhere near the calibre of the Equus.
09-09-13, 12:51 PM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
I find it ridiculous to compare it to a Impala
09-09-13, 11:51 PM
#58
Lexus Test Driver
One drive down Hollywood or Sunset Blvd. on a Friday night and you'll know exactly who I'm talking about and who Cadillac sells cars to. I'm talking about car trendy, hip-hop L.A, masses and masses of people, and the year 2013. This is how it is.
09-10-13, 10:33 AM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by LexBob2
I suppose a car shopper can compare just about anything to anything - But Impala-Equus doesn't come to mind.
09-10-13, 04:31 PM
#60
Lexus Fanatic
I don't think you can compare the cars enough to say the Impala is more car per dollar spent. I would buy an Equus, I wouldn't even look at an Impala.
To me, its like saying that a Ford Mustang is more car per dollar than a Honda Odyssey. The comparison at its core just doesn't make sense.
Glad we can agree on something!
To me, its like saying that a Ford Mustang is more car per dollar than a Honda Odyssey. The comparison at its core just doesn't make sense.
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
I totally agree. The Impala starts as a 4 banger and works its way to a 6 cylinder. The Equus is a flagship Hyundai that deserves to be compared to the LS.