August 2013 Auto Sales Thread
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
From: A better place
No one ever said the GS and the ES can't co-exist. What I said, however, was that the existence of the ES limits the potential of the GS, both in sales and in model variants. It also limits the potential of Lexus's brand image when Lexus's bestseller continues to be a car that's based on platform not designed for premium cars. It's really quite obvious. I try not to bring this up every month but since you start the implicit name calling I feel the need to respond again.
You can keep saying that it limits the Lexus brand image until your face turns blue, but that won't change the facts and reality, which your opinion does not match. BMW, Benz, and Audi market high-end models that people aspire to, yet they make most of their volume on really low-end, basic models that are lower class than any Lexus models. They also offer crazy lease rates (in North America) to drive much of the volume on their models here, which Lexus does not do.
High end models have never been about high volume, and NEVER will be. The GS is a mid-end model, not the highest end, but getting on the higher end. So the moderately good sales it's achieving is totally fine for the model.
Lexus brand image has never been better, and it will only become further elevated once the LF-LC production version, coming F models, and next-gen LS arrive.
Last edited by bitkahuna; Sep 5, 2013 at 05:56 PM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,010
Likes: 0
From: CA
Wrong, people here on ClubLexus HAVE said exactly that. No, I won't go digging up the posts, because sadly it's been said far too often here.
You can keep saying that it limits the Lexus brand image until your face turns blue, but that won't change the facts and reality, which your opinion does not match. BMW, Benz, and Audi market high-end models that people aspire to, yet they make most of their volume on really low-end, basic models that are lower class than any Lexus models. They also offer crazy lease rates (in North America) to drive much of the volume on their models here, which Lexus does not do.
High end models have never been about high volume, and NEVER will be. The GS is a mid-end model, not the highest end, but getting on the higher end. So the moderately good sales it's achieving is totally fine for the model.
Lexus brand image has never been better, and it will only become further elevated once the LF-LC production version, coming F models, and next-gen LS arrive.
You can keep saying that it limits the Lexus brand image until your face turns blue, but that won't change the facts and reality, which your opinion does not match. BMW, Benz, and Audi market high-end models that people aspire to, yet they make most of their volume on really low-end, basic models that are lower class than any Lexus models. They also offer crazy lease rates (in North America) to drive much of the volume on their models here, which Lexus does not do.
High end models have never been about high volume, and NEVER will be. The GS is a mid-end model, not the highest end, but getting on the higher end. So the moderately good sales it's achieving is totally fine for the model.
Lexus brand image has never been better, and it will only become further elevated once the LF-LC production version, coming F models, and next-gen LS arrive.
Last edited by ydooby; Sep 5, 2013 at 02:44 AM.
Pole Position
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 254
Likes: 2
From: Irvine, CA - Madrid, ES
Thanks to you! Great job collecting all the other numbers! Make sure S class sales are just 450 instead of 716!
Calm down and stop calling other people who have different opinions than yours haters.
No one ever said the GS and the ES can't co-exist. What I said, however, was that the existence of the ES limits the potential of the GS, both in sales and in model variants (i.e. the GS will never achieve anywhere near the sales volume of the E and the 5, and therefore can never make a business case for nearly as many model variants as the E and the 5, as long as the ES exists). It also limits the growth potential of Lexus's brand image when Lexus's bestseller continues to be a car that's based on a platform not designed for premium cars. Again, look at the JDM sales and see why the GS is the volume leader of Lexus there (hint: there's no ES in Japan). It really can't be any more obvious.
I try not to bring this up every month but since you start the implicit name calling I feel the need to respond again.
No one ever said the GS and the ES can't co-exist. What I said, however, was that the existence of the ES limits the potential of the GS, both in sales and in model variants (i.e. the GS will never achieve anywhere near the sales volume of the E and the 5, and therefore can never make a business case for nearly as many model variants as the E and the 5, as long as the ES exists). It also limits the growth potential of Lexus's brand image when Lexus's bestseller continues to be a car that's based on a platform not designed for premium cars. Again, look at the JDM sales and see why the GS is the volume leader of Lexus there (hint: there's no ES in Japan). It really can't be any more obvious.
I try not to bring this up every month but since you start the implicit name calling I feel the need to respond again.
Oh really? BMW and Mercedes's bestsellers (low-end, basic models according to you) are the 3, 5, C and E, all of which are actually properly engineered premium cars like the IS and the GS but unlike the ES. When people see a Lexus on the road most of the time it's either an RX or an ES, both of which are based on an admittedly mainstream platform. That's what most people see, and that's the kind of image Lexus projects for them--a "value" luxury brand. If Lexus is content with that image, fine. Being a value luxury brand is what kickstarted Lexus after all. But if they want to start being able to push high-end models in any meaningful quantities, this is the kind of image they'll need to start getting away with.
But I honestly think that Lexus market strategy is to divide the entry luxury sedan segment into two markets, the one aimed for performance and driving dynamics (IS) and the other one for comfort and smooth ride (ES).
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,423
Likes: 10
From: NC
This article seems a bit ... jaded?
To the amazement of many, U.S. car sales are at an annual run rate of 16 million vehicles. That comes close to matching the record years of 2006 and 2007, before the recession. The improvement has spread across most of the manufacturers. Total light vehicle sales rose 17% in August to just over 1.5 million. The only large car companies that were well short of that pace were Volkswagen and Hyundai, along with its stablemate Kia. Each is on its way toward being a bottom-tier car company in terms of American sales.
No car company can afford to miss being part of the U.S. auto sales success. Not with the catastrophe in Europe and slowing improvement in the world's largest market -- China. Sales in the People's Republic may be hampered for a long time as the government turns its attention to air pollution in its largest cities.
Both Hyundai and VW have a great deal to lose as their market shares erode in the United States. VW claims it is on a path to pass General Motors Co. (GM) and Toyota Motor Corp. (TM) as the world's largest car company. Hyundai's sales put it in 4th place among all global manufacturers. It needs to have a growing share of the American market to keep that place as well.
VW has not had much success in the United States since the Beetle model, which did well in the 1960s and early 1970s. The German manufacturer sold only 40,342 vehicles in the U.S. last month, which was down 1.6% from the same month a year ago. That puts it behind niche manufacturer Subaru, and well behind the Big 3 and major Japanese car makers. VW's lack of success has been blamed on the low grades its cars get for quality and a limited line up of models.
Kia and Hyundai were among the fastest selling brands in America for 3 years. But their sales have slowed considerably since about the same time as a scandal that involved its claims about how many MPG several of its vehicles got. The company was forced to revise its figures, which cannot have helped it with consumers. Hyundai sold only 66,101 cars and light trucks in August, up 8.2%. Its performance year to date is worse than that. Kia's sales for the month of August were up only 4% to 52,025, and year-to-date sales were also weak.
The quality of U.S. and Japanese cars targeted to the general market -- and Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Lexus targeted the luxury portion -- will make it very hard for VW and Hyundai to gain any footing. Neither company will enjoy the benefits of renaissance of the American auto industry.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Oh really? BMW and Mercedes's bestsellers (low-end, basic models according to you) are the 3, 5, C and E, all of which are actually properly engineered premium cars like the IS and the GS but unlike the ES. When people see a Lexus on the road most of the time it's either an RX or an ES, both of which are based on an admittedly mainstream platform. That's what most people see, and that's the kind of image Lexus projects for them--a "value" luxury brand. If Lexus is content with that image, fine. Being a value luxury brand is what kickstarted Lexus after all. But if they want to start being able to push high-end models in any meaningful quantities, this is the kind of image they'll need to start getting away with.
As a longtime Lexus owner, as someone in the industry and beyond engaged with consumers I disagree with your image of Lexus and so does any report that shows Lexus is highly regarded and revered in the auto industry.
It is clear Lexus has figured out the IS/ES/GS can co-exist and last month might be best month they have ever had together.
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Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,181
Likes: 244
From: New York
Wow crazy sales #s !!!! 
Lexus back at #1 is a big surprise for me. I know its just 1 month but still....NX and RC coupe will be doing some damage soon too.
IS - I'm so HAPPY to see sell well and especially the Fsport model.....I hope Lexus NA/Dealers sees this and starts to cater to the Lexus enthusiast customers. (Custom orders, more options etc)
GS - [unnecessary rant deleted]
RX - just a machine - perfect SUV for 90% of people imo....Not sure how NX will fit into this unless RX grows bigger for next model.
Cadillac - Awesome 20k + units - Hard work is starting to pay off.......New CTS and ATS coupe will help also.
3 Series - selling crazy again.....New 4 Series and X5 will increase BMW sales a lot in next 6-12 months.
MB Eclass - Wow just wow. Refresh is ugly imo but people just LOVE the three pointed star.
Infiniti Q50/G37 - What a mess.....
Acura - everything down except for MDX and RDX
Lexus back at #1 is a big surprise for me. I know its just 1 month but still....NX and RC coupe will be doing some damage soon too.
IS - I'm so HAPPY to see sell well and especially the Fsport model.....I hope Lexus NA/Dealers sees this and starts to cater to the Lexus enthusiast customers. (Custom orders, more options etc)
GS - [unnecessary rant deleted]
RX - just a machine - perfect SUV for 90% of people imo....Not sure how NX will fit into this unless RX grows bigger for next model.
Cadillac - Awesome 20k + units - Hard work is starting to pay off.......New CTS and ATS coupe will help also.
3 Series - selling crazy again.....New 4 Series and X5 will increase BMW sales a lot in next 6-12 months.
MB Eclass - Wow just wow. Refresh is ugly imo but people just LOVE the three pointed star.
Infiniti Q50/G37 - What a mess.....
Acura - everything down except for MDX and RDX
Last edited by bitkahuna; Sep 5, 2013 at 05:58 PM. Reason: ES screed deleted
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,181
Likes: 244
From: New York
I don't actually think that killing the ES is the way to go. I would instead rise ES status by designing an unique premium platform like the IS, GS and change its perception. I've been reading the ES forum and people who own an IS and a GS don't find the ES to be "that bad." The ES has a heritage, a history which is very well respected and it's one of the cash makers for Lexus, alongside the RX.
But I honestly think that Lexus market strategy is to divide the entry luxury sedan segment into two markets, the one aimed for performance and driving dynamics (IS) and the other one for comfort and smooth ride (ES).
But I honestly think that Lexus market strategy is to divide the entry luxury sedan segment into two markets, the one aimed for performance and driving dynamics (IS) and the other one for comfort and smooth ride (ES).
LS = Premium large luxury sedan
Best solution is to give the GS more engine options. - GS300h, GS200t (2.0 turbo), GS500(V8)
I would change the ES to hybrid only and make it what the HS was going to be. - Entry luxury midsize hybrid for people who care less about driver dynamics. Focusing on Comfort and Efficiency. Boom problem solved!
Lead Lap
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,585
Likes: 24
From: Washington
Wow crazy sales #s !!!!
Lexus back at #1 is a big surprise for me. I know its just 1 month but still....NX and RC coupe will be doing some damage soon too.
IS - I'm so HAPPY to see sell well and especially the Fsport model.....I hope Lexus NA/Dealers sees this and starts to cater to the Lexus enthusiast customers. (Custom orders, more options etc)
GS -
RX - just a machine - perfect SUV for 90% of people imo....Not sure how NX will fit into this unless RX grows bigger for next model.
Cadillac - Awesome 20k + units - Hard work is starting to pay off.......New CTS and ATS coupe will help also.
3 Series - selling crazy again.....New 4 Series and X5 will increase BMW sales a lot in next 6-12 months.
MB Eclass - Wow just wow. Refresh is ugly imo but people just LOVE the three pointed star.
Infiniti Q50/G37 - What a mess.....
Acura - everything down except for MDX and RDX
Lexus back at #1 is a big surprise for me. I know its just 1 month but still....NX and RC coupe will be doing some damage soon too.
IS - I'm so HAPPY to see sell well and especially the Fsport model.....I hope Lexus NA/Dealers sees this and starts to cater to the Lexus enthusiast customers. (Custom orders, more options etc)
GS -
RX - just a machine - perfect SUV for 90% of people imo....Not sure how NX will fit into this unless RX grows bigger for next model.
Cadillac - Awesome 20k + units - Hard work is starting to pay off.......New CTS and ATS coupe will help also.
3 Series - selling crazy again.....New 4 Series and X5 will increase BMW sales a lot in next 6-12 months.
MB Eclass - Wow just wow. Refresh is ugly imo but people just LOVE the three pointed star.
Infiniti Q50/G37 - What a mess.....
Acura - everything down except for MDX and RDX
Last edited by bitkahuna; Sep 5, 2013 at 05:58 PM.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Not sure how the GS selling 2200 units, 3rd in class and up over last year is weak? I think what is weak are the arguments over and over against the GS.
In how many languages must it be stated it will never be a volume car like the 5 or E? Without the ES it still WOULD NOT sell 5k a month, the ES starts 10k less than a GS
In how many languages must it be stated it will never be a volume car like the 5 or E? Without the ES it still WOULD NOT sell 5k a month, the ES starts 10k less than a GS
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
From: A better place
Oh really? BMW and Mercedes's bestsellers (low-end, basic models according to you) are the 3, 5, C and E, all of which are actually properly engineered premium cars like the IS and the GS but unlike the ES. When people see a Lexus on the road most of the time it's either an RX or an ES, both of which are based on an admittedly mainstream platform. That's what most people see, and that's the kind of image Lexus projects for them--a "value" luxury brand. If Lexus is content with that image, fine. Being a value luxury brand is what kickstarted Lexus after all. But if they want to start being able to push high-end models in any meaningful quantities, this is the kind of image they'll need to start getting away with.
Lexus only has the CT in the A3, A/B Class, 1 Series segment, while the Germans have a million low end variations of their low end models.
Also you've ignored what I said about the Germans offering fire sale lease rates in North America to keep volumes high. There's nothing prestigious or luxurious about desperately trying to maintain high volumes with fire sale lease rates. Lexus does not engage in such behavior, therefore is not so desperate for high sales volume using such methods.
The Germans' mastermind marketing has you fooled.
Okay. Can you please then stop the constant baiting and trollish behavior from users like RNM GS3? Thank you.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 31,944
Likes: 2,737
From: North Carolina
Folks lets keep the conversation on the vehicles, not the people.