Please don't patronize my posts, my point is "advance" and fixing their sedan issue isn't this. They were selling over 100-120k units with the Tl and tsx at its peak. We all now the current TL/tsx didn't sell as well.

Their idea is to merge both and sell less than half as much? The ILX was meant to sell 40k a year and it's around 1/2 that at best? Th RLX can barely muster 400 sales a month and it's the new too.

They will continue to be a SUV company even with this new car meeting sales targets. The specs are good but not mind blowing.

Really confused with their sedan strategy still.

 

I'm not the one quoted but you are clearly an Acura hater and it's hard for anyone to take you serious. I just showed you in my previous post that Acura target it's not unrealistic as they were selling about the same last year. What does the peak have to do with anything. Lexus doesn;t sell as it used to sell either. Does that make them a bad choice or cars?! No. They used to sell over 500k units in 2007 and @400k in 2011. The peak has nothing to do with that. Manufactures set the goals comparing with the last year not with the peak that was years ago..
Acura TL as "bad" as you think it is was selling more units than IS in 2012.
Of course the specs looks good. but don;t tell me that you were mind blown by the specs of the new IS..

 

I don't recall calling you or anyone anything. I do recall stating my position and explaining my reasoning. Do you know how you sound "no one takes me serious". Thanks for the laugh!

Why are you bringing Lexus into this? Why? And you are 100% wrong about Lexus sales, they had a record sales year in 2013.

The IS was built with some LFA engineers, I am impressed. This is another accord based sedan competing with the ES which is now actually Avalon based.

 

You're wrong, I was talking about 2012.
Lexus specs for the IS are the same for the last 9 years same gas mileage, same performance, slightly better handling.. That might not be impressive also for some "LFA engineers".

 

slightly better handling is an understatement. Have you driven both the 2IS and 3IS on a track like I have? Did you forget the dramatically improved interior? I still have access to the 2IS (another family member drives it now) and I can notice the huge differences immediately. 2IS feels like an ES compared to the 3IS despite the 2IS having a harsher feeling suspension and still handling worse. Lets not forget how it beat the 3 series in several tests.

 

This car is going to sell great because it looks great. I hope that with the trick transmissions they're able to get some good fuel economy and performance out of the 200hp K24 engine, because both have been lacking on that engine compared to the competition. I don't have my hopes up on that, but it'll still sell like crazy. And yes the same old SOHC VTEC V6 engine. ZZzzzzzzz. It's not the DI that's given the Lexus 2GR-FSE the edge all these years although that helps, but also the DOHC architecture and Dual VVT-i on both intake and exhaust cams. Being able to continuously vary both at all engine speeds and loads gives a 10-15 lb-ft torque advantage on a 3.0L engine. The Honda J-series has always been just a "get the job done" sort of engine. They're simple, elegant, and efficient, but not class leading in terms of numbers nor have they been particularly exciting. And you're still going to have to change the timing belt at 100k miles.

Criticisms aside, I would very seriously consider one of these, yes even the 4-cylinder model. Which is getting the DCT again? It's not much fun babying my 300hp Bimmer around town barely getting to tap into the power. There's something to be said about less powerful cars, that can actually be more engaging to drive. It's hardly a black-and-white thing that all people want more power, and if you don't get it it's because you can't afford it. I've always scoffed at that. A BMW 320i actually has appeal to me because it's still a zippy little car that's engaging to drive, but not more power than I can use.

Anyways, looking forward to the launch and can't wait to start seeing them on the street. Hope they drive great. Been a long time since there's been a good looking Acura sedan on the road. Well, the ILX is pretty good looking, as is the RLX, but almost nobody is buying them so you never see them.....

 

I haven;t driven on the track. That's irrelevant. How many people buy an IS to get it on the track?! I would assume you'll want and ISF for that no?
We were talking about specs wise.

 

I think this car will do very well. I'm still not to fond of the grill but the car does looks alot better than the outgoing model. As far as comparison I honestly never compare a TL to a ES b/c I always found the TL to be more sporty than a ES. I can never picture a ES with a 6 speed manual like the TL once have.

But to ordinary buyer I think they compare the car to whatever car is in the same price range. So I think most people will compare this car to the IS and ES. People care more about price.

 

You totally do not appreciate nor do you understand the fine details and literally "art" that goes into automotive design and handling. The specs on most all of the newer BMWs are better than the old, yet they drive a lot worse!!! It works both ways. Paper specs can be nearly meaningless. It all comes down to attention to fine details, by engineers who know how and are allowed.

 

I agree with you on this. Infiinity it's another example of specs better on paper than most but horrible handling. My point is that we only have the specs on paper on this Acura yet people hurry to bash it.. We'll wait and see . I think the specs looks very good as they are shown so far and this is a good candidate for Acura to revamp their brand.

 

This is so true, and something that I think a lot of people lose sight of or don't appreciate. Sounds funny, but one of the reasons I enjoyed the IS 250 is that you could have it at 9/10ths and still have the gas pedal on the floor just going up a highway on-ramp. No, it's not fast, but it's fun to ring out a less powerful car in day to day driving.

I remember, a few years ago when Lexus still did their driving tours, they had a road course where you could drive an IS 350 RWD or IS 250 AWD against the competition. The 350 was so powerful that it was all throttle romping and brakes, and grappling for control of the car. The 250, on that tiny road course, felt a lot more comfortable and settled because it was so much less powerful.

Anyway, I agree with you. End rant

 

They will most likely introduce 2.0t for next model year but nobody knows if it's going to be an addition to or replacement for 2.4

 

Acura Brand U.S. Sales

2002: 165,552
2003: 170,918
2004: 198,919
2005: 209,610
2006: 201,223
2007: 180,104
2008: 144,504
2009: 105,723
2010: 133,606
2011: 123,299
2012: 156,216
2013: 165,436

Lexus Brand U.S. Sales

2002: 234,109
2003: 259,755
2004: 287,927
2005: 302,895
2006: 322,434
2007: 329,177
2008: 260,087
2009: 215,975
2010: 229,329
2011: 198,552
2012: 244,166
2013: 273,847

 

I don't think the GS and TL/TLX are not in the same class.

The $47k GS should be compared to the new $48k RLX (RL).

GS Sales
2012: 22,160
2013: 19,742
2014: YTD *5358 (estimated 21,432)

RLX Sales
2013: 5053
2014: YTD * 1178 (estimated 4712)

 

Thank you Steve. "Slightly better" lol...obviously there are those of us that can appreciate a fine car and it's intricate details while owning and experiencing them and there are those regurgitating Autoweek and what their friend told them

Now sport doesn't matter or the track.. It used to matter when Lexus wasn't great at it.

Lol

Anywho I think we all know the tlx will hit those targets, it's a safe redesign with some good options to please the honda faithful.