Infiniti Q50 thread
11-07-13, 09:26 PM
#946
Lexus Fanatic
What you may be overlooking, though, is that many car-makers believe, rightly or wrongly, that the way to sell cars nowadays is to do just that...appease the guys in the auto press. That is because of the large (and growing) power that the press and auto-reviewers have in this age of 24/7 news and discussion. The people in real life, though, on the roads, who drive agressively like those in the auto-press do, are a distinct minority......they, for the most part, don't care about sporting qualities.
Take our own CAR CHAT, for example. Look at how many comparo and review articles are copied and posted from auto-magazines. Each one (usually) produces dozens (and sometimes hundereds) of replies.
I myself can, and do, appreciate competent handling....I've had a few situations pop up where I've had to make a hard manuver to avoid an accident when some jerk pulls out right in front of me. That's not necessarily just a matter of age, but of safety and common sense. In my car reviews, I look for a good balance of ride and handling (in general, the Germans do it best), and I list it in the PLUSSES/MINUSES columns if I think the car is notable or deficient in one, another, or both. Some recent GM cars, with their German Opel-based platforms, also share in the generally good ride/handling compromise. While it can be argued, on one hand, that today's dense-traffic levels create more chances for potential collisions (and more need for good handling to avoid them), it can also be argued that the slower average speeds these dense traffic conditions force also lowers the need for high-performance handling/stability. I can see how one looks at it either way. But it is also true that with many older people who like the floaty-ride characteristics of (some) older America cars....they don't really need sharp handling because their reactions are too slow to really take advantage of it when needed. And, some of the driving-instructors at the Defensive-Driving course for those over 55 actually encouraged the sale of cars like the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car because their big, heavy, full-frame chassis provided a good measure of safety in a crash.......some older drivers were in these cars on the advice of their Instructors.
Eh.......somewhat. While Magna-Ride and other adaptive/active suspensions do, in fact, make some compromises possible, there is still a difference between smooth and S-M-O-O-T-H. Today's Buick LaCrosse and Chevy Impala are smooth. The new 1969 Lincoln Continental I can remember my dad bringing home (at the time, he worked for the old Philco-Ford company, and would bring home big company Fords and Mercurys, and even the Company VP Lincoln, and would toss me the keys to try them out because he knew I was sensible, a good teen-age driver, and wouldn't abuse or wreck them)...now that Continental was SMOOTH. Driving it was like riding in a battleship with half of its weight in sound-insulation. It made even the last Town Car produced feel like a VW Beetle in comparison.
Of course, to be honest, that 1969 Lincoln could barely steer around a football stadium...today's new Impala and LaCrosse, even with their (comparatively) smooth rides, would easily handle circles around it.
Well, bit.....no arguments there. We can both agree that Detroit made some of its worst junk in the 1980s. That was whan I myself had had enough of their poor quality, and switched to Japanese makes (my first Japanese-brand car was a Mazda GLC).
Take our own CAR CHAT, for example. Look at how many comparo and review articles are copied and posted from auto-magazines. Each one (usually) produces dozens (and sometimes hundereds) of replies.
I myself can, and do, appreciate competent handling....I've had a few situations pop up where I've had to make a hard manuver to avoid an accident when some jerk pulls out right in front of me. That's not necessarily just a matter of age, but of safety and common sense. In my car reviews, I look for a good balance of ride and handling (in general, the Germans do it best), and I list it in the PLUSSES/MINUSES columns if I think the car is notable or deficient in one, another, or both. Some recent GM cars, with their German Opel-based platforms, also share in the generally good ride/handling compromise. While it can be argued, on one hand, that today's dense-traffic levels create more chances for potential collisions (and more need for good handling to avoid them), it can also be argued that the slower average speeds these dense traffic conditions force also lowers the need for high-performance handling/stability. I can see how one looks at it either way. But it is also true that with many older people who like the floaty-ride characteristics of (some) older America cars....they don't really need sharp handling because their reactions are too slow to really take advantage of it when needed. And, some of the driving-instructors at the Defensive-Driving course for those over 55 actually encouraged the sale of cars like the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car because their big, heavy, full-frame chassis provided a good measure of safety in a crash.......some older drivers were in these cars on the advice of their Instructors.
Eh.......somewhat. While Magna-Ride and other adaptive/active suspensions do, in fact, make some compromises possible, there is still a difference between smooth and S-M-O-O-T-H. Today's Buick LaCrosse and Chevy Impala are smooth. The new 1969 Lincoln Continental I can remember my dad bringing home (at the time, he worked for the old Philco-Ford company, and would bring home big company Fords and Mercurys, and even the Company VP Lincoln, and would toss me the keys to try them out because he knew I was sensible, a good teen-age driver, and wouldn't abuse or wreck them)...now that Continental was SMOOTH. Driving it was like riding in a battleship with half of its weight in sound-insulation. It made even the last Town Car produced feel like a VW Beetle in comparison.
Of course, to be honest, that 1969 Lincoln could barely steer around a football stadium...today's new Impala and LaCrosse, even with their (comparatively) smooth rides, would easily handle circles around it.
Well, bit.....no arguments there. We can both agree that Detroit made some of its worst junk in the 1980s. That was whan I myself had had enough of their poor quality, and switched to Japanese makes (my first Japanese-brand car was a Mazda GLC).
11-07-13, 10:22 PM
#947
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Engine to me is still a strong point for the car, just can't hear it anymore.
11-07-13, 11:29 PM
#948
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For the love of pete NATNUT read what I typed before ranting...you all lost your poop for no reason.
I whole heartedly disagree. My findings simply state the IS350F is a fantastic car. So fantastic in fact, it feels like its over engineered dare I say "contrived" car. It is this very perfection that actually robs some really raw driving feel and experience from the occupant. The car tries too hard ..period. Just trying to get it to get a little squirrelly is an effort in itself. Also, some of the compromises you have to make on the 350F are just unimaginable for a 49k-52K car in the (USA only). Options for color etc. missing tech features and so forth. All F Sport cars at this price range should have the ML stereo. The Stock system is pretty bad, i could hear comb filtering on the base system (phasing). The base model IS350F stereo is an embarrassment. At least the BOSE systems in the Q50s is more what a entry level base model stereo should be in a car of this price range, and even that hurts my fingers to say in type. The ML is the quality i expect from both companies, but having to bump up to 51k to get it in some regions is highway robbery. These kind of compromises just keep adding up on the IS350F. I kept finding myself saying "that's weird, that seems like it should be included"
I would have been happy with either car. The Q50s was a bit more bang for the buck, and yes it is more fun to drive off a track. Just enjoy your 350 if you own one, It's an incredibly fine automobile.
Thanks for the comprehensive review but you said the Q50 hybrid has a soul but the the IS350 doesn't?
Absolutely...the Q50S rack and Pinion is. I said the IS350 feels soulless. I also said the non drive by wire rack and pinion Q50s is the way to go. The Q50s hybrid feels weird... Do Not get the hybrid.
1) How can the better handling and more fun to drive car (the IS) have less soul? -
I didn't say it was more fun... it was really fun to drive, it handles better, and certainly the 350f is a more refined car than the Q50s. Refined doesn't = fun. There are tons of gorgeous women who are terrible in the sack. The IS350F feels like I'm driving something so refined it removes a ton of the experience of driving a performance car from the driver. The Q50S (non hybrid) with R&P steering is certainly more fun for not race track driving. The 350F would destroy the Q50s on the track...which never happens...because 99% of drivers don't go to tracks.....like ever...but if you did, and magically a q50 was right there....you'd get that bit of redemption........
2) You bought the Q50 hybrid. You DO KNOW right that the Q50 hybrid steering is that horrible DAS? The DAS steering universally panned for its disconnected and completely artificial feeling steering feel simply because there literally isn't a physical connection from the steering wheel to the road. Also your statement that the Q50 hybrid you ordered has rack and pinion steering is completely false - Q50 hybrid has DAS only with no option to go rack and pinion.
Um....No I didn't by the hybrid. I never stated that at all anywhere, i drove one early on and thought it felt weird. I purchased the Q50S with AWD and Rack and Pinion Steering. I specifically avoided the hybrid and the DBW steering. I'm kind of starting to think you need to pay more attention when you read. You are getting a bit wrapped up in a false conclusion...about my conclusion....which you didn't completely absorb accurately.
Basically you just said that the car with the completely artificial and disconnected steering, poorer handling and more body roll has more "soul" than the car with better ride/handling, lesser body roll and better steering.
Nope. I didn't say that. I think at this juncture you may have reached the point of no return. You made too many false assumption arguments at this point. Take a step back. Please read what I wrote again.
I don't doubt that you like the Q50 better than the IS but your OWN findings and your final conclusion that the IS has no soul compared to the Q50 doesn't add up.
Absolutely...the Q50S rack and Pinion is. I said the IS350 feels soulless. I also said the non drive by wire rack and pinion Q50s is the way to go. The Q50s hybrid feels weird... Do Not get the hybrid.
1) How can the better handling and more fun to drive car (the IS) have less soul? -
I didn't say it was more fun... it was really fun to drive, it handles better, and certainly the 350f is a more refined car than the Q50s. Refined doesn't = fun. There are tons of gorgeous women who are terrible in the sack. The IS350F feels like I'm driving something so refined it removes a ton of the experience of driving a performance car from the driver. The Q50S (non hybrid) with R&P steering is certainly more fun for not race track driving. The 350F would destroy the Q50s on the track...which never happens...because 99% of drivers don't go to tracks.....like ever...but if you did, and magically a q50 was right there....you'd get that bit of redemption........
2) You bought the Q50 hybrid. You DO KNOW right that the Q50 hybrid steering is that horrible DAS? The DAS steering universally panned for its disconnected and completely artificial feeling steering feel simply because there literally isn't a physical connection from the steering wheel to the road. Also your statement that the Q50 hybrid you ordered has rack and pinion steering is completely false - Q50 hybrid has DAS only with no option to go rack and pinion.
Um....No I didn't by the hybrid. I never stated that at all anywhere, i drove one early on and thought it felt weird. I purchased the Q50S with AWD and Rack and Pinion Steering. I specifically avoided the hybrid and the DBW steering. I'm kind of starting to think you need to pay more attention when you read. You are getting a bit wrapped up in a false conclusion...about my conclusion....which you didn't completely absorb accurately.
Basically you just said that the car with the completely artificial and disconnected steering, poorer handling and more body roll has more "soul" than the car with better ride/handling, lesser body roll and better steering.
Nope. I didn't say that. I think at this juncture you may have reached the point of no return. You made too many false assumption arguments at this point. Take a step back. Please read what I wrote again.
I don't doubt that you like the Q50 better than the IS but your OWN findings and your final conclusion that the IS has no soul compared to the Q50 doesn't add up.
I would have been happy with either car. The Q50s was a bit more bang for the buck, and yes it is more fun to drive off a track. Just enjoy your 350 if you own one, It's an incredibly fine automobile.
11-08-13, 12:43 AM
#949
So fantastic in fact, it feels like its over engineered dare I say "contrived" car. It is this very perfection that actually robs some really raw driving feel and experience from the occupant. The car tries too hard ..period. Just trying to get it to get a little squirrelly is an effort in itself.
...
I would have been happy with either car. The Q50s was a bit more bang for the buck, and yes it is more fun to drive off a track.
...
I would have been happy with either car. The Q50s was a bit more bang for the buck, and yes it is more fun to drive off a track.
11-08-13, 11:37 PM
#951
Haven sat in a ATS, IS350, Q50, 335, S60, A4/A5, and CLA, I must say the Q50 definitely has the interior edge as well. It's premium looking without looking too gaudy. It doesn't feel cold and monochromatic. It's sophisticated, yet sporty. It's classy, but also understated.
11-09-13, 03:44 AM
#952
Lexus Test Driver
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I honestly don't see the interior Lexus similarity, but maybe that's just me.
Haven sat in a ATS, IS350, Q50, 335, S60, A4/A5, and CLA, I must say the Q50 definitely has the interior edge as well. It's premium looking without looking too gaudy. It doesn't feel cold and monochromatic. It's sophisticated, yet sporty. It's classy, but also understated.
Haven sat in a ATS, IS350, Q50, 335, S60, A4/A5, and CLA, I must say the Q50 definitely has the interior edge as well. It's premium looking without looking too gaudy. It doesn't feel cold and monochromatic. It's sophisticated, yet sporty. It's classy, but also understated.
Infiniti got smart by trying to attract the traditional Lexus customers who are turned off by the new Lexus scheme.
Last edited by yowps3; 11-09-13 at 03:47 AM.
11-09-13, 06:12 AM
#954
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Geezus can we give it a rest. Let's not beat the **** outta the car b/c it's not sporty and laid back. Lexus sold well clearly but got beat up for that. Let's not do the same. It's a solid car saddled with the usual garbage infiniti marketing and product planning. No fault of the cars.
11-09-13, 06:43 AM
#955
Lexus Champion
I honestly don't see the interior Lexus similarity, but maybe that's just me. Haven sat in a ATS, IS350, Q50, 335, S60, A4/A5, and CLA, I must say the Q50 definitely has the interior edge as well. It's premium looking without looking too gaudy. It doesn't feel cold and monochromatic. It's sophisticated, yet sporty. It's classy, but also understated.
11-09-13, 09:10 AM
#956
Lexus Fanatic
Geezus can we give it a rest. Let's not beat the **** outta the car b/c it's not sporty and laid back. Lexus sold well clearly but got beat up for that. Let's not do the same. It's a solid car saddled with the usual garbage infiniti marketing and product planning. No fault of the cars.
You are correct, though, that Infiniti marketing, in most cases, has been poor fron Day One, back in 1990. Although I generally am not of the opinion that marketing really makes that much of a difference in selling cars (most people buy based on what they see in the showroom, not on TV), Infiniti was able to market and sell the G-series fairly well.
11-09-13, 12:51 PM
#957
Geezus can we give it a rest. Let's not beat the **** outta the car b/c it's not sporty and laid back. Lexus sold well clearly but got beat up for that. Let's not do the same. It's a solid car saddled with the usual garbage infiniti marketing and product planning. No fault of the cars.
11-09-13, 01:58 PM
#958
Lexus Fanatic
Sat in a Q50 today. Interior is nice, but the materials aren't that great. Low rent materials are hidden better than they are on the ES and arguably the IS, but the cheap stuff is all there also.
11-09-13, 04:12 PM
#959
Lexus Test Driver
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Mercedes are good at Photoshop. The CLA interior looked good on the computer screen but when I sat in one my goodness had the most drab interior. Not only very poor quality of materials but also poor design and build quality.
11-09-13, 07:41 PM
#960
Lexus Fanatic