IS-F Cancelled!
03-09-13, 08:20 AM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Yes, the F did reasonably well (at least at first). But its main problem, just like with most of the other competition in this class, is the ever-popular BMW 3-series. The 3-series, like it or not, has been an icon for years, though there are some signs that the Audi A4/A5/S4/S5 series is now picking up some of the 3-series popularity.
Enjoy your lunch.
Signed
Car fanboy.
Enjoy your lunch.
Signed
Car fanboy.
FYI, people can be fanboys of a particiular brand or two and still be a car fanboy. For example your love for Honda/Acura or Suburu or Buick could be pointed out but that doesn't make you not a car enthusiast, you just have preferences.
The IS F should be CELEBRATED for showing Lexus not only succeeded with sales but with results in a segment long dominated by the Germans.
03-09-13, 08:35 AM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Not on a track, but on several different types of roads. Good sport-sedan with typical Lexus quality, except that the initial models had rock-hard underpinnings that even auto-mags complained about.
You probably misunderstood me. I wasn't panning the IS-F itself with a "problem" (it's a good sport-sedan in itself).....but only pointing out that the BMW 3-series has dominated this segment for a long time), though there's some evidence that Audi is now cutting into it some.
I'm actually not that big of a Buick fan, overall. Though I had a couple of them in my youth (and liked them), the Verano is their first American-market product in some 40 years that I would actually spend money for. I also like Subie AWD systems very much, but, IMO, they have made some serious marketing and design errors lately (one reason I'm not a repeat customer). I'm also not what you would necessarily call a Honda/Acura junkie (I have not yet owned one)...but I have great respect for their build-quality (always did). Honda also does what is arguably the most delightful and easy-to-use FWD clutch/shift-linkage on the market for a traditional manual transmission. Driving a Civic manual, for instance, is almost as easy as a pure-automatic....it's virtually second-nature.
Celebrate all you want. That is what we have this forum for.
Why say "its main problem"? Its the first of its kind from Japan and did remarkable for Lexus. All the naysayers said it would flop/fail and its done the exact opposite. With its improvements it laps as fast as a M3 new M5. Of course the M3 is the segment leader, it has a 30 year history of M. The IS F wasn't even a planned product.
FYI, people can be fanboys of a particiular brand or two and still be a car fanboy. For example your love for Honda/Acura or Suburu or Buick could be pointed out but that doesn't make you not a car enthusiast, you just have preferences.
The IS F should be CELEBRATED for showing Lexus not only succeeded with sales but with results in a segment long dominated by the Germans.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-09-13 at 08:39 AM.
03-09-13, 07:20 PM
#20
is this even news worthy? are any of you actually expecting a 2014 IS-F based on the soon to be released gen 3 ISx50? the current IS-F didn't make debut until the 3rd production year of the gen 2 ISX50. Lexus would want to fix all the kinks on the new IS before they put the bigger motor in it, it's just common sense. BMW does the same thing with the M cars, M cars are always 2-3 years behind their respective base series cars.
03-09-13, 07:27 PM
#21
Lexus Champion
Curious how many people discussing the IS F truly have any significant time behind the wheel?
It's an amazing car that lacks more in prestige/panache/history than anything to do with the car itself.
It's an amazing car that lacks more in prestige/panache/history than anything to do with the car itself.
03-09-13, 10:03 PM
#23
Moderator
03-09-13, 10:52 PM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
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I just went back an edited it now, to prevent further confusion
~ Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 03-09-13 at 10:56 PM.
03-09-13, 11:05 PM
#25
Regardless of whether this is real or fiction, the IS F has certainly succeeded in revamping Lexus' reputation. No longer is the company simply known as reliable and luxurious, but now it has infused a sport perspective that really makes it comparable to the competitors. The F marquee introduced the IS F into the market, then the LFA, and then F-sport. Honestly, there's good variety now, something that took away from potential sales to compete with M and AMG performance lines well before the F was even introduced. Owners should be proud to own such a vehicle. If it is on a hiatus, it'll come back stronger, more powerful, and even more eye-popping than when the world first took notice in '07.
M and AMG forged their respective divisions at one point, and it had lacked a prestige then. Over time, through extensive R&D and producing various representations, they built that moniker that is synonomous with high powered performance vehicles today. The F, in my opinion, is right there. It certainly doesn't have as extensive a history, and it only has two vehicles sporting its marquee, but these two vehicles years from now will have a significant impact in bringing awareness to a new line of high performance luxury vehicles.
M and AMG forged their respective divisions at one point, and it had lacked a prestige then. Over time, through extensive R&D and producing various representations, they built that moniker that is synonomous with high powered performance vehicles today. The F, in my opinion, is right there. It certainly doesn't have as extensive a history, and it only has two vehicles sporting its marquee, but these two vehicles years from now will have a significant impact in bringing awareness to a new line of high performance luxury vehicles.
03-10-13, 11:59 AM
#26
Having just purchased a Porsche, I have a pretty good perspective on what prestige / panache / history means to peoples' reactions. Even though I was expecting different reactions to the Porsche, I was amazed at how different the reactions actually were vs the IS F.
I do have behind-the-wheel time on both cars and know the differences. While the cars are very different in what they do best, in many ways they're not that far apart. But all but 2 of my friends and others I've met who know about cars panned and nit-picked the IS F but no one panned the Porsche. My normal (non-car persons) friends also got a lot more excited over the Porsche.
OTOH, prestige / panache / history have tangible benefits. The amount of 3rd-party support for M series and Porsche is much more substantial than for the IS F. I think I could easily find 3 or 4 independent shops within 30 miles of my house that can help me prep the Porsche for a track day or even race prep a Porsche. Try talking to your SA at the Lexus dealer about stuff like that.
If you build nothing but sports cars for 60 years (the 911 alone is 50 years old), unless you have totally brain-dead engineer process, you should expect the newer cars to benefit from the long history of improvements and refinements. The IS F has only a 4-year history of improvement which even in that short time benefitted from some suspension changes. And, the IS F uses a platform that was not originally designed for this level of performance although it works really well. (Hopefully the 3IS platform was designed with the F model in mind.)
If you're a collector type, you can find a whole long history of Porsche cars (356, 911, 912, 914, etc.) to collect and restore for reasonable money. While Toyota has produced a small number of cars that went on to be classics, Lexus has not - yet.
While Club Lexus folks do arrange for some nice meets (including IS F meets), there are no clubs for Lexus / IS F comparable to things like the Porsche Club of America and all the activities, publications and other benefits of membership.
Finally, the prestige / panache should lead to higher resale values.
But that said, the IS F is a real sleeper, rare and under appreciated car. If it is cancelled, well I guess the resale value mine will just increase. Maybe in 20 or 30 years, IS F (and certainty LFA) will be real collectables.
03-10-13, 02:11 PM
#27
For instance, in 2010, M3 Sedan sold 1.8k only (M3 total was 10k), with total for M division for 17k world wide...
No doubt that 2014/2015 3IS-F, especially if they build more of varations, will sell really well. Current IS-F was introduced when 2IS sales dropped significantly world wide.
03-10-13, 04:37 PM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
Depends on what you mean by "signficant." Although, yes, knowledge can and does come with ownership over time, you would be surprised how much you can find out about a car in just a regular static-review and a 20-30 minute test-drive. The back seat of any IS model, of course, is sardine-like for large adults no matter where you are....it doesn't take much to note that. With the IS-F, in particular, when I drove and reviewed one of the first ones out in 2008, it didn't take me a half-mile, on a rutted local four-lane highway, to see how rock-hard the suspension/underpinnings were...a feature also criticized at the time in the auto press. On some of the small frost-heaves, even at moderate speeds and with proper tire pressure, the rear suspension, on the lighter rear-end of the car, hit even some small ridges so hard that it actually bounced into the air slightly and came down at a slight angle, requiring steering corrections. After a couple of (about) three-quarter-throttle rolling-acceleration tests (I usually don't floor it on cars with brand-new engines not broken-in), one could also tell how the fuel-injectors were programmed and how it affected torque-characteristics. Below 3500 or so, there wasn't a whole lot of response, then between 3600 and 4000, torque just exploded. Felt almost like a big turbo....or a regular N/A engine. Mike (Blueprint), who had also driven one back then, as I remember, had noted pretty much the same characteristic in the torque-curve.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-12-13 at 09:13 AM.
03-10-13, 08:50 PM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
the is-f was of course, not an officially developed model initially. a skunk-works project that got the green light (thankfully!). it's a beast of a car, but the big V8 is not that well-suited to the chassis it wasn't designed for. specifically, the car is nose heavy. lexus did an amazing job by putting in a well programmed 8 speed auto with great rev blips on downshifts, and fast shifts in general. they should also be HIGHLY commended for continuing to improve the car significantly during its run. as mmarshall noted, the suspension in first years was like rocks. 
in its last few years it was tuned more for comfort, while not giving up anything in the twisties.
the car has shown what lexus can do if it wants to (without a vast budget like the lfa). the 250 and 350 f-sport setup actually felt more balanced to me, while the is-f is of course faster, at least in straight lines.
so rip to a great car and hoping the NEXT is-f is even better! and comes out soon after the new is!
in its last few years it was tuned more for comfort, while not giving up anything in the twisties.the car has shown what lexus can do if it wants to (without a vast budget like the lfa). the 250 and 350 f-sport setup actually felt more balanced to me, while the is-f is of course faster, at least in straight lines.
so rip to a great car and hoping the NEXT is-f is even better! and comes out soon after the new is!
03-12-13, 05:45 AM
#30
MotorAuthority
The Lexus IS F currently sits atop the Japanese luxury brand’s performance offerings, giving buyers an alternative to the likes of the BMW M3 and the Mercedes C63 AMG.
Even if you’re not a fan of Lexus, it’s hard not to be impressed with the IS F’s 416-horsepower 5.0-liter V-8, mated to an impressively quick 8-speed automatic gearbox. The chassis is more than capable, too, and we’d call the IS F a remarkably easy car to drive fast.
Given that Lexus is trying to reshape its image as a sportier brand, we’re surprised to hear a rumor, started by USA Today (and reported by Lexus Enthusiast), that the IS-F sedan is going away after the 2013 model year.
In a recent review of the IS F, USA Today’s James Healey wrote that, “The redesigned 2014 Lexus IS model that’s going on sale this summer will have sport variants, but no F high-performance version.”
“But as a consolation prize,” Healey continued, “Lexus says it’ll keep the 2013 IS F on sale through year’s end.”
That sounds definitive, but Lexus has been silent on the subject. While that could mean it isn’t quite ready to break the news, it could also mean that something else, of equal or greater performance, is in the works.
Something, perhaps, with less than 4 doors. Word is that Lexus will put a version of the LF-CC coupe displayed at the 2012 Paris Auto Show into production, and Lexus Enthusiast seems to believe that a new high-performance coupe, called the RC F, may take the place of the IS F.
On the 1 hand, that makes sense, since the Lexus LFA coupe (which we’ll admit existed in a different pricing world) has now been retired. Coupes are generally perceived to be sportier than sedans, so a high-performance coupe could help Lexus to reshape its image.
On the other hand, it may just be an incorrect interpretation of the data at hand, in which case a new IS F may show up once the lower-performance models are launched. We’d like to think there’s room enough in the Lexus portfolio for both coupe and sedan variants, so we promise to update just as soon as we can.