February 2013 SalesThread
03-19-13, 11:26 AM
#106
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Middle East
Lexus announced a record increase in 2012 sales with 31,288 units sold during the year across the Middle East. This increase has seen Lexus sales across the region jump by more than 50% over 2011 making the Middle East a strong growth market for the premium luxury brand.
Maintaining its leadership status in the luxury vehicles category, Lexus continued its dominance with a 36% market share in the GCC.
The LX range of SUV's emerged as the highest selling model with 47% market share showcasing the outstanding road prowess, impeccable quality and sheer style unmatched among luxury SUVs.
According to Nobuyuki Negishi, Chief Representative of Middle East & North Africa Representative Office, Toyota Motor Corporation,
"The Lexus brand has always set the trend for progressive luxury among premium vehicles and this heritage has been taken to greater heights with the new Lexus philosophy which has offered Middle East customers world-class luxury, evocative design, outstanding driving dynamics and innovative technology. Our customers have embraced this new direction and our different models across the Lexus brand to drive us to a record performance in 2012."
During 2012, Lexus launched a range of new models underpinned by its new design philosophy with the dramatically sculpted spindle grille as the design centerpiece, to bring an unparalleled driving experience to Middle East customers. With this development, Lexus has embarked on a carefully phased development of frontal design to reflect Lexus' movement towards a more dynamic, yet sophisticated position in the market.
The new and re-designed models in the Middle East, include the flagship LX570, RX 350 and RX 450h in the SUV segment; and the all-new ES lineup which included the ES 350 and ES 250. The new ES unmistakably bears the new face of Lexus with its distinctive, spindle grille.
The GS 350 was another winner from Lexus in 2012 having received the accolade of being voted 'Best Executive Sedan' by an elite panel of motoring experts at the 2012 Middle East Motor Awards (MEMA) to win the top spot in the Best Executive Sedan category.
The year also saw the introduction of the 2013 Lexus LS line-up which includes the LS 460, LS 460L, LS 600hL hybrid, and the 1st-ever LS 460 F SPORT.
The new LS carries forward the legacy of Lexus in terms of fusing the most advanced technology with refined Japanese aesthetics with advanced features and innovations like the world's 1st Climate Concierge technology featuring a 4- Zone Independent Temperature Control and up to 13 infra-red sensors managed by a central ECU, offering maximum comfort for every LS occupant.
2012 also saw the introduction of the 2013 Lexus IS range which included the IS, the IS F high performance sedan and the IS Convertible.
03-19-13, 11:31 AM
#107
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Nice to see the rare Lexus enthusiast around here. 
Here is more proof the GS is a sales flop, best selling Lexus in Japan in 2012.
http://lexusenthusiast.com/2013/02/1...ales-in-japan/
Here is more proof the GS is a sales flop, best selling Lexus in Japan in 2012.
http://lexusenthusiast.com/2013/02/1...ales-in-japan/
I understand why many of the "enthusiasts" have a hard time understanding or accepting how the ES competes with the GS, but the fact is that to the non-enthusiasts, which is the majority of the car buying population, the ES is 120% the car the GS is at 80% the price.
This may be harsh for some, but quite honestly, then most of those people either can't afford anything more than an ES, or they are stupid. The 4GS interior is a BIG leap over the 6ES. Not just in style and craftsmanship, but in quality and materials it is a BIG noticeable leap. Just from pictures you can tell the GS interior looks MUCH BETTER than the ES interior. With the older 3GS and 5ES, the gap between the two interiors was a lot smaller. 3GS interior space was cramped, and ride/handling was not that great. The 3GS offered almost nothing significant over the 5ES for the majority of people. The 4GS however is a lot different than the 6ES. The 4GS offers MUCH better and sharper handling, a totally different class of interior, and a different level of luxury when you look at the interior overall, the features, the seats and options like rear seat controls.
03-19-13, 12:02 PM
#108
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You're completely missing the point. The premise of the "debate" here isn't if the GS is a "sales flop", but if the GS would've sold a lot more without the ES. That the GS lead Lexus's sales in Japan in 2012 is the exact proof of how good the 4GS sales could be if the ES were not competing with it.
I understand why many of the "enthusiasts" have a hard time understanding or accepting how the ES competes with the GS, but the fact is that to the non-enthusiasts, which is the majority of the car buying population, the ES is 120% the car the GS is at 80% the price.And what makes you think the average buyers aren't "stupid"? You as an enthusiast may be able to tell and appreciate the sportiness/handling and the the additional quality and refinement of the GS over the ES, but to the average buyers there's something called "good enough". As long as the car meets this "good enough" threshold it doesn't matter if the GS has more leather and more premium plastic on the dash, more ways to tune the seating position, more sporty handling, etc.--they BOTH meet 100% of their needs, and yet the ES just happens to cost less, making the choice a no-brainer, as the extras that the GS offers are of no real value to them. Of course there are people who buy the ES only because they can't afford the GS (that's why the ES also competes with the IS), but that doesn't mean there aren't people who don't see the point of paying more for qualities that are of little value to them in a car.
I understand why many of the "enthusiasts" have a hard time understanding or accepting how the ES competes with the GS, but the fact is that to the non-enthusiasts, which is the majority of the car buying population, the ES is 120% the car the GS is at 80% the price.And what makes you think the average buyers aren't "stupid"? You as an enthusiast may be able to tell and appreciate the sportiness/handling and the the additional quality and refinement of the GS over the ES, but to the average buyers there's something called "good enough". As long as the car meets this "good enough" threshold it doesn't matter if the GS has more leather and more premium plastic on the dash, more ways to tune the seating position, more sporty handling, etc.--they BOTH meet 100% of their needs, and yet the ES just happens to cost less, making the choice a no-brainer, as the extras that the GS offers are of no real value to them. Of course there are people who buy the ES only because they can't afford the GS (that's why the ES also competes with the IS), but that doesn't mean there aren't people who don't see the point of paying more for qualities that are of little value to them in a car.
Then in typical internet fashion, you only post about the sales in Japan supporting your point when the GS in America was only 800 units short of its yearly sales goal. So with the ES here, the GS sold fine its first year. How hard is that for all of you to understand?
Its hilarious that a car that comes within 3% or so of its sales target considered a sales problem and the ES is the problem for the car.
It is HILARIOUS that people point out the 2 slowest months of a car year typically and made every excuse in the book when the GS outsold the 5 series in August (as an example).
Lexus for whatever reason(s) has the most illogical and double standard arguments placed against it I've ever seen and the GS in this case is another example.
The GS is not a volume car like the 5/E, people need to just drop the damn idea it would sell like that. Those cars are the STATUS QUO, period, end of discussion. . Even when in its best years, it sold 32k cars here WITH a V-8 option. Think about that. Rather do you all think about that or even know that? So in its best years it still sold far less than the 5/E class. In its best sales years it still sold on target with the ES as the ES has always been around.
And again in no way shape or fashion am I saying the GS is a smashing sales success nor has opportunities. I've posted them too many times.
03-19-13, 12:04 PM
#109
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^^ excellent post, ydooby
03-19-13, 05:27 PM
#110
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We have a GS forum and an ES forum right here and you all can see for yourselves there is minimal cross shopping or chatter between the two this generation and EVERY generation. But people like yourself, who obviously know better than me, are quick to speculate and post over and over on the internet.
Then in typical internet fashion, you only post about the sales in Japan supporting your point when the GS in America was only 800 units short of its yearly sales goal. So with the ES here, the GS sold fine its first year. How hard is that for all of you to understand?
Its hilarious that a car that comes within 3% or so of its sales target considered a sales problem and the ES is the problem for the car.
It is HILARIOUS that people point out the 2 slowest months of a car year typically and made every excuse in the book when the GS outsold the 5 series in August (as an example).
Lexus for whatever reason(s) has the most illogical and double standard arguments placed against it I've ever seen and the GS in this case is another example.
The GS is not a volume car like the 5/E, people need to just drop the damn idea it would sell like that. Those cars are the STATUS QUO, period, end of discussion. . Even when in its best years, it sold 32k cars here WITH a V-8 option. Think about that. Rather do you all think about that or even know that? So in its best years it still sold far less than the 5/E class. In its best sales years it still sold on target with the ES as the ES has always been around.
And again in no way shape or fashion am I saying the GS is a smashing sales success nor has opportunities. I've posted them too many times.
Then in typical internet fashion, you only post about the sales in Japan supporting your point when the GS in America was only 800 units short of its yearly sales goal. So with the ES here, the GS sold fine its first year. How hard is that for all of you to understand?
Its hilarious that a car that comes within 3% or so of its sales target considered a sales problem and the ES is the problem for the car.
It is HILARIOUS that people point out the 2 slowest months of a car year typically and made every excuse in the book when the GS outsold the 5 series in August (as an example).
Lexus for whatever reason(s) has the most illogical and double standard arguments placed against it I've ever seen and the GS in this case is another example.
The GS is not a volume car like the 5/E, people need to just drop the damn idea it would sell like that. Those cars are the STATUS QUO, period, end of discussion. . Even when in its best years, it sold 32k cars here WITH a V-8 option. Think about that. Rather do you all think about that or even know that? So in its best years it still sold far less than the 5/E class. In its best sales years it still sold on target with the ES as the ES has always been around.
And again in no way shape or fashion am I saying the GS is a smashing sales success nor has opportunities. I've posted them too many times.
And of course you don't hear the ES and the GS owners talking much about cross-shopping between the two--it's because the type of people buying the ES and the type of people buying the GS are minimally overlapping subsets of a larger set of people shopping for a "midsize luxury sedan". The choice is quite clear for either of them--those who value sportiness and higher grades of luxury would not consider the ES, and those who don't value these qualities, which happens to be the majority, would not consider the GS because the ES is there to meet 100% of their needs for less money already. This is the subset of people that would've bought the GS, which also meets 100% of their needs, if the ES were not presented to them as a choice to begin with. But since the ES is there, there's no reason for them to even consider getting the more expensive but no more valuable GS, and thus there's no cross-shopping between the two. And yet both of these two subsets of people would've cross-shopped the 5 and the E because that's all what BMW and Mercedes have got for them.Thanks.
Last edited by ydooby; 03-19-13 at 05:40 PM.
03-19-13, 06:24 PM
#111
Lexus Test Driver
We have a GS forum and an ES forum right here and you all can see for yourselves there is minimal cross shopping or chatter between the two this generation and EVERY generation. But people like yourself, who obviously know better than me, are quick to speculate and post over and over on the internet.
Then in typical internet fashion, you only post about the sales in Japan supporting your point when the GS in America was only 800 units short of its yearly sales goal. So with the ES here, the GS sold fine its first year. How hard is that for all of you to understand?
Its hilarious that a car that comes within 3% or so of its sales target considered a sales problem and the ES is the problem for the car.
It is HILARIOUS that people point out the 2 slowest months of a car year typically and made every excuse in the book when the GS outsold the 5 series in August (as an example).
Lexus for whatever reason(s) has the most illogical and double standard arguments placed against it I've ever seen and the GS in this case is another example.
The GS is not a volume car like the 5/E, people need to just drop the damn idea it would sell like that. Those cars are the STATUS QUO, period, end of discussion. . Even when in its best years, it sold 32k cars here WITH a V-8 option. Think about that. Rather do you all think about that or even know that? So in its best years it still sold far less than the 5/E class. In its best sales years it still sold on target with the ES as the ES has always been around.
And again in no way shape or fashion am I saying the GS is a smashing sales success nor has opportunities. I've posted them too many times.
Then in typical internet fashion, you only post about the sales in Japan supporting your point when the GS in America was only 800 units short of its yearly sales goal. So with the ES here, the GS sold fine its first year. How hard is that for all of you to understand?
Its hilarious that a car that comes within 3% or so of its sales target considered a sales problem and the ES is the problem for the car.
It is HILARIOUS that people point out the 2 slowest months of a car year typically and made every excuse in the book when the GS outsold the 5 series in August (as an example).
Lexus for whatever reason(s) has the most illogical and double standard arguments placed against it I've ever seen and the GS in this case is another example.
The GS is not a volume car like the 5/E, people need to just drop the damn idea it would sell like that. Those cars are the STATUS QUO, period, end of discussion. . Even when in its best years, it sold 32k cars here WITH a V-8 option. Think about that. Rather do you all think about that or even know that? So in its best years it still sold far less than the 5/E class. In its best sales years it still sold on target with the ES as the ES has always been around.
And again in no way shape or fashion am I saying the GS is a smashing sales success nor has opportunities. I've posted them too many times.
How is it possible for Lexus Execs to have Sales Targets LOWER for the 4GS that they had for the previous generation. Please explain this to me bec i dont get it.
No company releases a new generation of an EXISTING MODEL with the expectation for it to sell LOWER VOLUME!!!
03-19-13, 06:26 PM
#112
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Funny that time and time again you brought up this sales "target" set by Lexus USA and never stopped to think for a moment why this "target" was set so low in the first place. If the GS is not supposed to be a volume car like you say, then why are the 5 and the E selling like a true volume car? Is the GS technically not a match for the 5 and E, pound for pound? Of course it is! But knowing that, why is the expectation for the GS so comparatively low against the 5/E, its direct rivals then? It's obvious isn't it? Lexus USA knows as well as most of the rest of us do that it's with the presence of the ES that the GS can never be a volume seller.
And of course you don't hear the ES and the GS owners talking much about cross-shopping between the two--it's because the type of people buying the ES and the type of people buying the GS are minimally overlapping subsets of a larger set of people shopping for a "midsize luxury sedan". The choice is quite clear for either of them--those who value sportiness and higher grades of luxury would not consider the ES, and those who don't value these qualities, which happens to be the majority, would not consider the GS because the ES is there to meet 100% of their needs for less money already. This is the subset of people that would've bought the GS, which also meets 100% of their needs, if the ES were not presented to them as a choice to begin with. But since the ES is there, there's no reason for them to even consider getting the more expensive but no more valuable GS, and thus there's no cross-shopping between the two. And yet both of these two subsets of people would've cross-shopped the 5 and the E because that's all what BMW and Mercedes have got for them.Thanks.
And of course you don't hear the ES and the GS owners talking much about cross-shopping between the two--it's because the type of people buying the ES and the type of people buying the GS are minimally overlapping subsets of a larger set of people shopping for a "midsize luxury sedan". The choice is quite clear for either of them--those who value sportiness and higher grades of luxury would not consider the ES, and those who don't value these qualities, which happens to be the majority, would not consider the GS because the ES is there to meet 100% of their needs for less money already. This is the subset of people that would've bought the GS, which also meets 100% of their needs, if the ES were not presented to them as a choice to begin with. But since the ES is there, there's no reason for them to even consider getting the more expensive but no more valuable GS, and thus there's no cross-shopping between the two. And yet both of these two subsets of people would've cross-shopped the 5 and the E because that's all what BMW and Mercedes have got for them.Thanks.
Yeah, what do I know.
Now I understand lurkers.
03-19-13, 06:41 PM
#113
How is it possible for Lexus Execs to have Sales Targets LOWER for the 4GS that they had for the previous generation. Please explain this to me bec i dont get it.
No company releases a new generation of an EXISTING MODEL with the expectation for it to sell LOWER VOLUME!!!
No company releases a new generation of an EXISTING MODEL with the expectation for it to sell LOWER VOLUME!!!
03-19-13, 06:44 PM
#114
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Did you even read the first paragraph of my post? Have you ever stopped to think about why the expectation for the GS is so low, while it's so high for its direct rivals, which the GS is more than capable of competing with on merit?
03-19-13, 06:59 PM
#115
Lexus Test Driver
The V8 was never a big seller by any means for the GS.
Try finding a used GS430 or 460.
Plus GS series still has GS450h and new F Sport trims to make up for any loss of V8 sales.
Blueprint - You keep mentioning this "The GS meeting 97% of its sales goals" but you DON'T MENTION that those sales goals are nowhere near the past generation GS nor its main competitors - the 5 series and MB E-class. (and oh BTW those lease deals are cheap as hell on the current GS also, so pls don't mention how BMW/MB subsidize their leases.)
Try finding a used GS430 or 460.
Plus GS series still has GS450h and new F Sport trims to make up for any loss of V8 sales.
Blueprint - You keep mentioning this "The GS meeting 97% of its sales goals" but you DON'T MENTION that those sales goals are nowhere near the past generation GS nor its main competitors - the 5 series and MB E-class. (and oh BTW those lease deals are cheap as hell on the current GS also, so pls don't mention how BMW/MB subsidize their leases.)
03-19-13, 07:12 PM
#116
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The V8 was never a big seller by any means for the GS.
Try finding a used GS430 or 460.
Plus GS series still has GS450h and new F Sport trims to make up for any loss of V8 sales.
Blueprint - You keep mentioning this "The GS meeting 97% of its sales goals" but you DON'T MENTION that those sales goals are nowhere near the past generation GS nor its main competitors - the 5 series and MB E-class. (and oh BTW those lease deals are cheap as hell on the current GS also, so pls don't mention how BMW/MB subsidize their leases.)
Try finding a used GS430 or 460.
Plus GS series still has GS450h and new F Sport trims to make up for any loss of V8 sales.
Blueprint - You keep mentioning this "The GS meeting 97% of its sales goals" but you DON'T MENTION that those sales goals are nowhere near the past generation GS nor its main competitors - the 5 series and MB E-class. (and oh BTW those lease deals are cheap as hell on the current GS also, so pls don't mention how BMW/MB subsidize their leases.)
03-19-13, 09:59 PM
#117
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Note to self, set really low sales goals so I can get close and declare victory. Great plan.
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