pbm317

That's because the wants of consumers have changed since the 90s and early 2000's, at least in terms of driving dynamics.

The Gen X's of the world, and last of the Boomers have voiced their opinions with their wallets in that they don't want to drive clouds of isolation anymore.

It has taken Lexus the longest to realize this. But now that they're headed in that direction, I think you can see the success with which they can achieve it, in their own flavor, like the new GS.

LexFather

Exactly. His problem with Lexus is not everyone else's problem, the cars continue to sell well and the new models have been very well received.

I think with Mr. Toyoda lighting a fire under the company they are very well aware and lively now.

Biggest issue is expanding to Europe and other markets and continuing to build reliable cars. Hopefully the Yen weakening will help the value content ratio.

mmarshall

It's not just in the chassis-tuning, either. IMO, Lexus interiors today, though plush-looking and not bad overall, aren't using the same kind of materials they did 10-15 years ago. I can tell the difference.



Yet the LS, which is arguably the quietest and smoothest-riding of today's Lexus products, sells mostly to exactly that......Boomers in their 50s and 60s, who have the money for a car like that. Yes, they do want clouds of isolation.....although, agreed, handling is somewhat more important to them than it was to previous generations.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

it's funny though that bmw seems to have gone in the other direction.

with the sophistication of today's high end suspensions, there's no need to choose between bone-jarring, and cushy because they're adjustable from the interior. the much bigger factor is the size of rims and tires. the biggest factor in cushy with high end cars is tire wall size. i for one am done with rubber-band type tires - they're just too uncomfortable, no matter how good they look.

pbm317

They're probably going to meet somewhere in the middle.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

That's not Lexus's fault though, blame consumer taste and the competition. They don't want to be a small automaker, and want to compete with the big dogs. Since that's the case, tit for tat

LexFather

And for example the 4GS is simply a far better car and drive than the older models. Its not even close. Yet it still can be quiet and luxurious to drive in. Lexus has figured they don't have to throw away luxury to get sportier.

mrraider

Car rag ramblings IMHO. Most people do NOT want a track ready car. They want something nice, quiet, that feels planted at speed and can take a few curves with ease. The 2nd gen IS is perfect IMHO. Lexus needs to stick with what them strong. Quality, nice interiors, balance handling and comfort.

The proof is the pudding. Most people buy base model c class/ 3 series, a4, with auto transmissions, 17" wheels and touring suspension. The Fsports and S line packages are a small fraction of sales.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The 4GS improved on all fronts where the 3GS fell short. It feels more solid, better materials, better use of space +trunk, fewer rattles, efficiency, safety all while gaining even better performance/handling all while still having a comfier ride than the 3GS which has a hard suspension. That's having your cake and eating it too. There was a big decline in Lexus quality from 2007-10, namely rattles and sad materials, but Lexus knows this and is correcting this.

pbm317

They buy the base because they can't afford the F-Sport, M-Sport, and S-Lines, and yes those are targeted at a niche group of enthusiasts. But they are driven to buy the base because of the images associated with those sportier models.

LexFather

Pretty sure they can afford it, we are talking 50-70k here...just a matter of priorities. A GS premium is a very well done car. F-sport looks different and is clearly sportier.

In my experience the people that by sport models want a more rare car and something different as well as those buying it to drive it harder.

Lexus F-sport program has been very successful especially since they moved to offering it as a package instead of parts you had to install. For example I think they anticipated it to be 15-20% of GS sales and its around 25-30%

mrraider

Maybe for the Germans. Not so for Lexus. People buy Lexus for the image of quality, reliability, and the smooth refined character of the vehicle. Not every one wants their spine shattered over rough roads and potholes.

pbm317

But you mentioned the C/3/A4 and my response was about those.

I'd wager a good share of the newer IS sales have been spurred by the image set forth by the IS-F and new F-Sport packages.

LexFather

To me what is a danger is when they move slow. The Germans move quick, their product lines are vast and they have expansive M/AMG etc lineups. Porsche, Jaguar, Maserati will be offering more vehicles. I still don't understand why there is no 4 door coupe yet. No GS F yet. The wait on new coupes.

I hope in the future they move faster and I believe they eliminated some rounds of management for speedier decision making.

oldcajun

What I hope is that Lexus finds a way to get back to the smoother, quieter, more luxurious standard models particularly for the ES, RX, and LS. The IS can be the all out sport model for the younger more enthusiastic driver. While my LS is fairly smooth and quiet, I don't think it is as good as the LS430. It may handle a bit better than the 430 did but the comfort loss is much more significant than the handling gains. I would really like to return to maximum comfort and let the F-Sport versions cover the "sportier" niche.

If Lexus is to really standout, it should be in the area of comfort, quiet, and reliability.

I have an issue with the role of the GS. As a luxury sedan it does not match up very well with the E Class which is a volume seller for Mercedes. The last generation was just too small, and the new one seems intent on being sporty at the expense of luxury. BMW's new 5 seems to be morphing into a real E Class competitor with more room. more luxury, and a bit less sport.
Steve