In Development? Lexus GS F & GS 300h
01-05-13, 06:13 PM
#34
While I would like to see some more variants, we don't need 5 GS's. I'd rather see the new coupes, etc.
same goes for GS300h...
01-05-13, 10:25 PM
#36
For me, the magic number is 500 HP.
Achieve that or more, then the GSF will get praise on my book. BUT, go below 500 HP and it would just be a disappointment.
Lexus should know and understand that a GS-F that only has less than 500 HP cannot succeed (especially with an improving competition)
Achieve that or more, then the GSF will get praise on my book. BUT, go below 500 HP and it would just be a disappointment.
Lexus should know and understand that a GS-F that only has less than 500 HP cannot succeed (especially with an improving competition)
01-06-13, 06:08 AM
#37
Since I have no idea why wouldnt ES300h and GS300h compete in the same market, as they are very different cars.
01-06-13, 06:33 AM
#38
Pole Position
Those who say the GS450h is pointless may not have driven it.
It occupies the segment that the V8 GS400, GS430 and GS460 used to occupy, ie just below a full fledged GS-F but above the 6 cylinder GS300/GS350.
It's the same as a BMW 550i in model placement. A little less expensive than the halo M5 but above the 6 cylinder 535i/4 cylinder 528i variants. Does anyone say that the 550i is pointless??
Where it differs is that while BMW went for brutal straight-line acceleration and not much fuel efficiency in its V8 non-M 5 series, Lexus went for more-than-adequate acceleration especially overtaking ability and very commendable fuel economy with the GS450h -- a way of having your cake and eating it. I'll also surmise that both cars are low selling variants in their respective model line-ups as well.
Where I feel Lexus missed the boat is that they do not have the F-Sport package for the GS450h in the US. Trust me, I drove it and it's a hoot to drive. Lexus should have had the GS450h F-Sport front and center as the face of the GS advertising campaign, emphasize the incredibly smooth and effortless overtaking abilities tied together with the incredible handling of the F-Sport, with the far better fuel economy (especially compared to the German V8s) thrown in as a BONUS.
Instead they play up the fuel efficiency while not emphasizing the REAL WORLD overtaking ability (and hence performance) of the GS450h. A marketing opportunity missed IMO.
It occupies the segment that the V8 GS400, GS430 and GS460 used to occupy, ie just below a full fledged GS-F but above the 6 cylinder GS300/GS350.
It's the same as a BMW 550i in model placement. A little less expensive than the halo M5 but above the 6 cylinder 535i/4 cylinder 528i variants. Does anyone say that the 550i is pointless??
Where it differs is that while BMW went for brutal straight-line acceleration and not much fuel efficiency in its V8 non-M 5 series, Lexus went for more-than-adequate acceleration especially overtaking ability and very commendable fuel economy with the GS450h -- a way of having your cake and eating it. I'll also surmise that both cars are low selling variants in their respective model line-ups as well.
Where I feel Lexus missed the boat is that they do not have the F-Sport package for the GS450h in the US. Trust me, I drove it and it's a hoot to drive. Lexus should have had the GS450h F-Sport front and center as the face of the GS advertising campaign, emphasize the incredibly smooth and effortless overtaking abilities tied together with the incredible handling of the F-Sport, with the far better fuel economy (especially compared to the German V8s) thrown in as a BONUS.
Instead they play up the fuel efficiency while not emphasizing the REAL WORLD overtaking ability (and hence performance) of the GS450h. A marketing opportunity missed IMO.
01-06-13, 09:17 PM
#40
Lexus Champion
I cannot see why it's not possible. I mean BMW can do it (M5), Audi can do it (RS6 Avant), Mercedes Benz can do it (E63 AMG, CLS63 AMG, etc.) and heck even Jaguar can do it (XFR, etc.)
As such, Toyota group has similar technical skills and knowledge as well as the know-how to make something like this happen.
I cannot see any reason why making a >500 HP Lexus GS-F would be difficult (in this day-and-age).
01-07-13, 04:35 AM
#42
01-07-13, 10:23 AM
#43
Those who say the GS450h is pointless may not have driven it.
It occupies the segment that the V8 GS400, GS430 and GS460 used to occupy, ie just below a full fledged GS-F but above the 6 cylinder GS300/GS350.
It's the same as a BMW 550i in model placement. A little less expensive than the halo M5 but above the 6 cylinder 535i/4 cylinder 528i variants. Does anyone say that the 550i is pointless??
Where it differs is that while BMW went for brutal straight-line acceleration and not much fuel efficiency in its V8 non-M 5 series, Lexus went for more-than-adequate acceleration especially overtaking ability and very commendable fuel economy with the GS450h -- a way of having your cake and eating it. I'll also surmise that both cars are low selling variants in their respective model line-ups as well.
Where I feel Lexus missed the boat is that they do not have the F-Sport package for the GS450h in the US. Trust me, I drove it and it's a hoot to drive. Lexus should have had the GS450h F-Sport front and center as the face of the GS advertising campaign, emphasize the incredibly smooth and effortless overtaking abilities tied together with the incredible handling of the F-Sport, with the far better fuel economy (especially compared to the German V8s) thrown in as a BONUS.
Instead they play up the fuel efficiency while not emphasizing the REAL WORLD overtaking ability (and hence performance) of the GS450h. A marketing opportunity missed IMO.
It occupies the segment that the V8 GS400, GS430 and GS460 used to occupy, ie just below a full fledged GS-F but above the 6 cylinder GS300/GS350.
It's the same as a BMW 550i in model placement. A little less expensive than the halo M5 but above the 6 cylinder 535i/4 cylinder 528i variants. Does anyone say that the 550i is pointless??
Where it differs is that while BMW went for brutal straight-line acceleration and not much fuel efficiency in its V8 non-M 5 series, Lexus went for more-than-adequate acceleration especially overtaking ability and very commendable fuel economy with the GS450h -- a way of having your cake and eating it. I'll also surmise that both cars are low selling variants in their respective model line-ups as well.
Where I feel Lexus missed the boat is that they do not have the F-Sport package for the GS450h in the US. Trust me, I drove it and it's a hoot to drive. Lexus should have had the GS450h F-Sport front and center as the face of the GS advertising campaign, emphasize the incredibly smooth and effortless overtaking abilities tied together with the incredible handling of the F-Sport, with the far better fuel economy (especially compared to the German V8s) thrown in as a BONUS.
Instead they play up the fuel efficiency while not emphasizing the REAL WORLD overtaking ability (and hence performance) of the GS450h. A marketing opportunity missed IMO.
01-07-13, 03:44 PM
#44
GS250 is nice budget entry level available overseas.
GS450h and GS460 V8 are both good, but in different ways.
GS450 has performance and economy, but much heavier, so physics dictates a slower turn-in and less terminal grip, and a smaller boot; future Lion/LiPo technology should really help here.
GS460 has bigger boot and more performance with just a heavier nose only for slower turn-in and front end breaks into understeer earlier [than GS350], but V8 lacks hybrid's economy.
GS350 may be the best all rounder, esp handling wise.
GS250 would have a lighter nose, but no poke.
A GS300 would be in between these two.
Overall, just horses for courses.
Must compare the ratio between the cost of producing each individual engine variant, and the expected sales.
The most profitable variants will be cheap to produce, but high in sales.
It is possible to deliberately retail an expensive to produce model with low volume sales - deliberately for image/marketing purposes.
If I'm not wrong, LFA is for image/marketing purposes?
For example F1 is a costly exercise deliberately for brand image/marketing purposes, but unfortunately Toyota hasn't done well in Formula 1...
GS450h and GS460 V8 are both good, but in different ways.
GS450 has performance and economy, but much heavier, so physics dictates a slower turn-in and less terminal grip, and a smaller boot; future Lion/LiPo technology should really help here.
GS460 has bigger boot and more performance with just a heavier nose only for slower turn-in and front end breaks into understeer earlier [than GS350], but V8 lacks hybrid's economy.
GS350 may be the best all rounder, esp handling wise.
GS250 would have a lighter nose, but no poke.
A GS300 would be in between these two.
Overall, just horses for courses.
Must compare the ratio between the cost of producing each individual engine variant, and the expected sales.
The most profitable variants will be cheap to produce, but high in sales.
It is possible to deliberately retail an expensive to produce model with low volume sales - deliberately for image/marketing purposes.
If I'm not wrong, LFA is for image/marketing purposes?
For example F1 is a costly exercise deliberately for brand image/marketing purposes, but unfortunately Toyota hasn't done well in Formula 1...
Last edited by peteharvey; 01-07-13 at 03:50 PM.
01-07-13, 04:59 PM
#45
yes, if it's just the current 250 drivetrain, it's not as ideal. but if they bump it a bit, i think gs250 (or equivalent) would be great as well. gs300h is good, but there are always that group that is skeptical about hybrids
if you go "v8" (in however form it is), you want performance, period. "adequate" acceleration and similar terms are just excuses. the gs450h, one can say it is in its own league, which i think it does. but against today's v8 market? it's not really a match
if you go "v8" (in however form it is), you want performance, period. "adequate" acceleration and similar terms are just excuses. the gs450h, one can say it is in its own league, which i think it does. but against today's v8 market? it's not really a match
Now with GS300h, you get extra electric 40hp shove anytime you press gas, no need to wait, that will make a big difference in feel, even if in pure 0-60, they might end up being the same... since GS250 isnt that slow in 0-60, but it requires you to launch it at 6k RPM probably :-)