December 2012 Sales Thread
Lexus Fanatic
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Lexus Fanatic
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GS and Genesis are in same price range? Not even close... Overall Gensis range doesnt average close to ES prices, let alone GS. It doesn't really matter though, they compete as much as Avalon and Audi A6 do.
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I don't understand why you keep bringing "sport" into the conversation when it has nothing to do with the "midsize luxury class" that was in discussion. The GS, the ES, and the Genesis are all in the "midsize luxury class", but are simply priced quite differently. It's part of Lexus's sales strategy to let the ES bridge both the entry luxury (by price) and midsize luxury (by size) segments with one model. It's one of the main reasons why the GS and the IS will never beat the Germans in sales. The ES simply takes away a good portion of the GS and the IS's potential buyers, although Lexus will be happy if the combined sales of the GS, the ES and the IS can beat those of the 5+3 and the E+C.
Last edited by ydooby; Jan 5, 2013 at 04:29 PM.
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THIS IS completely INACCURATE. When the 2GS came and out won multiple awards it was b/c it drove sporty and like a coupe. At the time the only sportier sedan was the E39 5 series. A number of us had a 2GS when it was the "bad boy Lexus" so please don't dare re-write history about it. For its time period, the GS was as good as a sports sedan as you could buy.
Last edited by ydooby; Jan 5, 2013 at 04:03 PM.
I don't understand why you keep bringing "sport" into the conversation when it has nothing to do with the "midsize luxury class" that was in discussion. The GS, the ES, and the Genesis are all in the "midsize luxury class", but are simply priced quite differently. It's part of Lexus's sales strategy to let the ES bridge both the entry luxury (by price) and midsize luxury (by size) segments with one model. It's one of the main reasons why the GS and the IS will never beat the Germans in sales. The ES simply takes away a good portion of the GS and the IS's potential buyers, although Lexus will be happy if the combined sales of the GS, the ES and the IS can beat those of the 5+3 and the E+C.
2397 Genesis were sold in Dec.
Mid Size class
5 series-8,385
E class-6,984
GS-2,796
A6-1,875
MKS-1,350
M-849
RL-18 -
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But then again, Hyundai does not report the sales of the Genesis sedans and coupes separately, so it's hard to include it even if one tries.
One of CL's other members did properly include the ES (which you agree to be in the same class as the Genesis sedan) in the same class as the GS in our August 2012 sales thread:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/7464298-post44.html
Last edited by ydooby; Jan 5, 2013 at 05:37 PM.
Why are you asking me? I'm not the one compiling that list.
But then again, Hyundai does not report the sales of the Genesis sedans and coupes separately, so it's hard to include it even if one tries.
One of CL's other members did properly include the ES in the same class as the GS in our August 2012 sales thread:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/7464298-post44.html
But then again, Hyundai does not report the sales of the Genesis sedans and coupes separately, so it's hard to include it even if one tries.
One of CL's other members did properly include the ES in the same class as the GS in our August 2012 sales thread:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/7464298-post44.html
I'm asking you because if the Genesis was the GS class,it should be on that list.
The Genesis isn't on both lists.
I don't feel a ES is in the same class as a 5 Series,A6,GS etc.Just like the Genesis.
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I did not compile the list you quoted. If I had made that list I would've included both the ES and the Genesis sedan in the midsize luxury class because they are. However, they are different to the GS in that they can also be included in the entry luxury class while the GS can't. That's all I'm trying to say.
I did not compile the list you quoted. If I were to make that list I would've included both the ES and the Genesis sedan in the midsize luxury class because they are. However, they are different to the GS in that they can also be included in the entry luxury class while the GS can't. That's all I'm trying to say.
I agree except I feel a Genesis is in the luxury entry level class like the ES.
We'll have to agree to disagree,Y.
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Just close your eyes and imagine for a second that the Genesis sedan is priced just like the GS in the upper 40's without any other change--do you think the Genesis sedan belongs to the "midsize luxury class" now? Exactly.
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I'm sorry, but it won multiple awards because it had killer acceleration performance for its time and cuddled its occupants like a true luxury car, not because it drove sporty (unless you equate sporty to great acceleration). Road feedback to the driver was kept to a minimum and isolation was the main theme in the 2GS--everything felt effortless and friction-less. It was simply not a sporty or engaging driving experience. Then again, none of the other cars in the same segment drove sporty except the 5-series at the time, but that's what I was trying to say--that the segment is defined by luxury and size, not by sportiness.
The 2GS for its time and by expert reviews was sporty. END OF DISCUSSION.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...0/viewall.html
At least partial credit for the GS' exemplary dynamic deportment goes to its fully independent underpinnings, which were comprehensively changed for '98. The familiar double-wishbone front suspension was retuned for better compliance and the rear layout employs a new multiple-link design that's smaller, lighter, and more space-efficient than the old hardware. Shod with the optional 235/45ZR17 Bridgestone Potenza RE030 tires on 17x8.0-inch cast aluminum wheels in place of the base 225/55VR16 rubber on 16x7.5-inch alloy rims, the GS 400 feels more a dedicated performance machine than a sport-luxury sedan. Its vehicle-speed-sensitive power-assisted rack-and-pinion steering lacks the crisp immediacy of a 5 Series BMW, but this lithe Lexus tracks cleanly through corners, displaying only modest body roll.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2H9lRUH5Q
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2H9lRUH5Q
The GS 400 works well as a performance sedan, along the lines of BMW 540i, Mercedes-Benz C43 or even Cadillac Seville STS. It's a car built to inspire, especially on winding desert blacktop where one can sample the precise suspension and balance of this rear-wheel-drive car, and enjoy the opportunity to make the engine sing.
But unlike other Lexus sedans, the rear-drive GS models are blessed with grippier tires, firmer suspension calibrations, more immediate steering, and hard-wired communication between the chassis and the driver. Whether the pavement is smooth or broken, arrayed in sweeping curves or tight switchbacks, as flat as a pancake or more undulating than a roller coaster, the GS models remain poised and unflustered.
A NAV equipped Genesis is around $41K.Close to a ES w/NAV..
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So I guess to reviewers it blurs lines of both based on price. Cause a Genesis ends where a GS starts with price and a Genesis is prices just like an ES. The other thing too is while the Genesis offers RWD it isn't sporty at all and is more ES like in road manners instead of the much sportier GS.
Well here is the Genesis in a comparo vs a last gen ES beating it
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests
Here is a comparo with a new GS beating the Genesis R-spec
http://www.driving.ca/research-car/r...#ixzz2FivVTxeq
Well here is the Genesis in a comparo vs a last gen ES beating it
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests
Here is a comparo with a new GS beating the Genesis R-spec
http://www.driving.ca/research-car/r...#ixzz2FivVTxeq