The Tesla discussion
The electric motor is not really a motor, but a sort of extension of another motor, namely the power station, which uses fuel (wind turbines and solar farms are of course a solution, but it is still not part of the motor in a Tesla). Batteries don't generate power, it also just store the power from a generator. Unless you can utilise a bolt of lightning like the guy in Back to the Future. No offence to my ex- compatriot Mr. Musk, but his business acumen has much to do with realising the potential of a very old idea which was partly abandoned in the twenties, because of the lack of an electricity supply infrastructure. Now we can just plug in and hope that the real motor, namely the power station doesn't go on the blink. Not the idea to spoil the jumping up and down about the Tesla, but all and all nothing new, except that it can rejuvenate the American motor industry, but what a horrible irony for real cars that were made in Detroit.
Last edited by nipponbird; May 3, 2014 at 06:54 AM.





The Tesla Model X crossover is the next vehicle expected from electric automaker Tesla. While we’ve seen the exterior styling of the Model X (including its unique “falcon wing” rear doors) prior to this week’s Detroit Auto Show, what’s new and significant is the “interior exploration” that the automaker is currently highlighting.
Tesla hopes to give prospective buyers an idea of the different colors and materials that will likely be available in the production Model X. The example on display blends black and white leather to add contrast to the three rows of seating.
The same dichromatic theme carries over to the dashboard as well, which shares its oversized infotainment display with the Tesla Model S sedan. While we’d opt for a more subdued contrast if we were filling out a Model X reservation form, there’s no denying that the crossover’s cabin is a study in contemporary elegance.
Underneath, the Model X is largely based on the Model S’ hardware, and will come with 60 kWh and 85 kWh battery pack options. All-wheel drive is expected to be an option, though it’s unknown how this feature will impact the crossover’s range.
Production of the Tesla Model X is expected to begin in late 2013, with deliveries beginning in early 2014. Ordering details have already been released, and Tesla claims to have booked over $40 million in advanced Model X sales.
Tesla hopes to give prospective buyers an idea of the different colors and materials that will likely be available in the production Model X. The example on display blends black and white leather to add contrast to the three rows of seating.
The same dichromatic theme carries over to the dashboard as well, which shares its oversized infotainment display with the Tesla Model S sedan. While we’d opt for a more subdued contrast if we were filling out a Model X reservation form, there’s no denying that the crossover’s cabin is a study in contemporary elegance.
Underneath, the Model X is largely based on the Model S’ hardware, and will come with 60 kWh and 85 kWh battery pack options. All-wheel drive is expected to be an option, though it’s unknown how this feature will impact the crossover’s range.
Production of the Tesla Model X is expected to begin in late 2013, with deliveries beginning in early 2014. Ordering details have already been released, and Tesla claims to have booked over $40 million in advanced Model X sales.

Despite last week's bad news for Tesla Motors, with the Model S fire causing company stocks to fall, it looks like people are still confident in the company’s products. Reservations for the upcoming Model X crossover have exceeded the 6,000 mark, with a member of the Tesla MotorsClub website confirming he has reserved car number 6,117 on October 5.
Refundable reservations start at $5,000 for the base Model X, while those for the Model X Signature start at $40,000. It’s not clear how many of each variant have been reserved, nor how many customers have ordered the 60 kWh battery pack versus the more powerful and longer range 85 kWh pack.
However, it's a good sign for Tesla Motors that the Model X, the price of which remains unknown, has managed to rack up more than 6,000 reservations with deposits. The Model X is expected to cost about the same as the Model S, which is priced between $62,400 and $95,000 before incentives.
Many Model X reservation holders appear to be existing Tesla customers, with either a Roadster or a Model S already in their garage. Many are looking to buy the Model X as a replacement for a conventionally-powered SUV.
The Model X is built on a slightly modified version of the Model S platform and comes with seating for seven adults and optional all-wheel-drive capability via two electric motors. Deliveries will begin next year.
Refundable reservations start at $5,000 for the base Model X, while those for the Model X Signature start at $40,000. It’s not clear how many of each variant have been reserved, nor how many customers have ordered the 60 kWh battery pack versus the more powerful and longer range 85 kWh pack.
However, it's a good sign for Tesla Motors that the Model X, the price of which remains unknown, has managed to rack up more than 6,000 reservations with deposits. The Model X is expected to cost about the same as the Model S, which is priced between $62,400 and $95,000 before incentives.
Many Model X reservation holders appear to be existing Tesla customers, with either a Roadster or a Model S already in their garage. Many are looking to buy the Model X as a replacement for a conventionally-powered SUV.
The Model X is built on a slightly modified version of the Model S platform and comes with seating for seven adults and optional all-wheel-drive capability via two electric motors. Deliveries will begin next year.

Will be 'slightly' more expensive than Model S
Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk announced the upcoming Model X will be offered exclusively with an all-wheel drive arrangement.
Even though on Tesla's website the Model X is listed with RWD and AWD options, Elon Musk declared recently at a store opening in London the car "will only be offered as all-wheel-drive. So it'll be dual-motor all-wheel drive." In addition, he also announced the Model X's starting price will be "slightly higher" in comparison to the Model S. Tesla's official website lists two battery options: 60 kWh and 85 kWh.
We remind you Tesla's initial plans were to kick off production towards the end of this year but it will commence in late 2014 after the automaker decided to start paying back the 465M USD loan taken from the U.S. Energy Department.
In related news, on the same occasion Elon Musk said deliveries of the first right-hand drive Model S units will start probably in March and the first car will be delivered by Elon Musk himself to a "high-profile" customer.
Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk announced the upcoming Model X will be offered exclusively with an all-wheel drive arrangement.
Even though on Tesla's website the Model X is listed with RWD and AWD options, Elon Musk declared recently at a store opening in London the car "will only be offered as all-wheel-drive. So it'll be dual-motor all-wheel drive." In addition, he also announced the Model X's starting price will be "slightly higher" in comparison to the Model S. Tesla's official website lists two battery options: 60 kWh and 85 kWh.
We remind you Tesla's initial plans were to kick off production towards the end of this year but it will commence in late 2014 after the automaker decided to start paying back the 465M USD loan taken from the U.S. Energy Department.
In related news, on the same occasion Elon Musk said deliveries of the first right-hand drive Model S units will start probably in March and the first car will be delivered by Elon Musk himself to a "high-profile" customer.

Was originally scheduled for 2013
Tesla has revealed fans will have to wait a little while longer before they can get their hands on the highly-anticipated Model X.
In a letter to shareholders, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said the company has "just completed the final studio release of the vehicle" and they expect production prototypes will be ready in the fourth quarter of 2014.
This means the production model won't be launched until next year and production will be limited at first. However, Tesla expects production will be ramped up in spring of 2015.
Despite the delays, Tesla knows they have a lot riding on the crossover. As the company explained "Tesla’s future success depends on its ability to design and achieve market acceptance of Model S and other new vehicle models, specifically Model X."
Tesla has revealed fans will have to wait a little while longer before they can get their hands on the highly-anticipated Model X.
In a letter to shareholders, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said the company has "just completed the final studio release of the vehicle" and they expect production prototypes will be ready in the fourth quarter of 2014.
This means the production model won't be launched until next year and production will be limited at first. However, Tesla expects production will be ramped up in spring of 2015.
Despite the delays, Tesla knows they have a lot riding on the crossover. As the company explained "Tesla’s future success depends on its ability to design and achieve market acceptance of Model S and other new vehicle models, specifically Model X."

Tesla Call to Action for Missouri:
We have just become aware of a last-minute attempt by the auto dealers lobby, via pressure on legislators, to use a procedure that would bar Tesla from selling its vehicles direct to consumers in the state. This extraordinary maneuver amounts to a sneak attack to thwart due process and hurt consumer freedom in Missouri.
In the last week before Missouri's legislature ends its current session, dealers proposed new language in an existing bill that would force Missouri consumers to purchase new vehicles only through middleman franchised dealers. The bill, HB 1124, has been in circulation since December 2013. It was passed by the House on April 17 without the anti-Tesla language. Last night, the bill with the new anti-Tesla language passed the Senate after zero public consultation and could soon move to the House floor for a final vote, essentially without debate.
This change is not an innocent, minor amendment. It is completely unrelated to the original bill, which was about laws regarding all-terrain vehicles, recreational off-highway vehicles, and utility vehicles. It is also a complete 180 from what the original bill proposed. The current statute only bars franchisors from competing against their franchisees (for example, Ford cannot compete against Ford dealerships).
Tesla complies with that statute because we do not compete with any franchise. Just as we saw in New Jersey, however, this bill amendment expands the scope of existing regulations well beyond their original intent. They are attempting to do so in part by redefining the word "franchisor" to mean "manufacturer", a pirouette of which the legislators may not even be aware. To be clear: this is worse than a mere case of dealers trying to protect an existing monopoly – this is a case of dealers trying to create a monopoly.
Officials at the Federal Trade Commission have already stated their support for Tesla's ability to sell vehicles direct to consumers. In a blog post, the FTC authors wrote: "Regulators should differentiate between regulations that truly protect consumers and those that protect the regulated." Separately, a letter signed by more than 70 leading economists under the banner of the International Center for Law & Economics soundly dismisses every dealer argument and concludes that these bans are only motivated by "economic protectionism that favors dealers at the expense of consumers and innovative technologies."
Tesla already has a Service+ center in St Louis, MO, at which we employ 15 people. We have invested $2M in the state so far. We plan to open a larger service center in Kansas City, MO, later this year, employing another 15 people and investing an additional $1M.
This debate should be held in the full light of day with all sides being given an opportunity to make their case. Instead, the dealers are again trying to ram through a provision under the cover of darkness and without public debate. The people of Missouri deserve better from their elected officials.
To speak out against this bill, contact your legislator.
In the last week before Missouri's legislature ends its current session, dealers proposed new language in an existing bill that would force Missouri consumers to purchase new vehicles only through middleman franchised dealers. The bill, HB 1124, has been in circulation since December 2013. It was passed by the House on April 17 without the anti-Tesla language. Last night, the bill with the new anti-Tesla language passed the Senate after zero public consultation and could soon move to the House floor for a final vote, essentially without debate.
This change is not an innocent, minor amendment. It is completely unrelated to the original bill, which was about laws regarding all-terrain vehicles, recreational off-highway vehicles, and utility vehicles. It is also a complete 180 from what the original bill proposed. The current statute only bars franchisors from competing against their franchisees (for example, Ford cannot compete against Ford dealerships).
Tesla complies with that statute because we do not compete with any franchise. Just as we saw in New Jersey, however, this bill amendment expands the scope of existing regulations well beyond their original intent. They are attempting to do so in part by redefining the word "franchisor" to mean "manufacturer", a pirouette of which the legislators may not even be aware. To be clear: this is worse than a mere case of dealers trying to protect an existing monopoly – this is a case of dealers trying to create a monopoly.
Officials at the Federal Trade Commission have already stated their support for Tesla's ability to sell vehicles direct to consumers. In a blog post, the FTC authors wrote: "Regulators should differentiate between regulations that truly protect consumers and those that protect the regulated." Separately, a letter signed by more than 70 leading economists under the banner of the International Center for Law & Economics soundly dismisses every dealer argument and concludes that these bans are only motivated by "economic protectionism that favors dealers at the expense of consumers and innovative technologies."
Tesla already has a Service+ center in St Louis, MO, at which we employ 15 people. We have invested $2M in the state so far. We plan to open a larger service center in Kansas City, MO, later this year, employing another 15 people and investing an additional $1M.
This debate should be held in the full light of day with all sides being given an opportunity to make their case. Instead, the dealers are again trying to ram through a provision under the cover of darkness and without public debate. The people of Missouri deserve better from their elected officials.
To speak out against this bill, contact your legislator.
The electric motor is not really a motor, but a sort of extension of another motor, namely the power station, which uses fuel (wind turbines and solar farms are of course a solution, but it is still not part of the motor in a Tesla). Batteries don't generate power, it also just store the power from a generator. Unless you can utilise a bolt of lightning like the guy in Back to the Future. No offence to my ex- compatriot Mr. Musk, but his business acumen has much to do with realising the potential of a very old idea which was partly abandoned in the twenties, because of the lack of an electricity supply infrastructure. Now we can just plug in and hope that the real motor, namely the power station doesn't go on the blink. Not the idea to spoil the jumping up and down about the Tesla, but all and all nothing new, except that it can rejuvenate the American motor industry, but what a horrible irony for real cars that were made in Detroit.
while the tesla s is not a car for most people, it's pretty impressive that tesla has lasted this long, even if their sales are minuscule (<7k last quarter). their losses are not gigantic, despite spending vast sums on new development beyond their current offering. the 'x' will hopefully make it by the fall, and one or more of their planned giant battery plants may alleviate some of their supply constraints.
as for the car's power source not coming from the car, you're quite right, but in that sense, neither does any car. as you know, an internal combustion engine car 'liberates' the power in gasoline, which was in turn refined from oil buried under the ground for millions of years.
about back to the future, i think he had a 'fusion reactor' on his delorean
thus liberating nuclear power from a portable supply. that would be awesome if even made available (the tech does exist).
The electric motor is not really a motor, but a sort of extension of another motor, namely the power station, which uses fuel (wind turbines and solar farms are of course a solution, but it is still not part of the motor in a Tesla). Batteries don't generate power, it also just store the power from a generator. Unless you can utilise a bolt of lightning like the guy in Back to the Future. No offence to my ex- compatriot Mr. Musk, but his business acumen has much to do with realising the potential of a very old idea which was partly abandoned in the twenties, because of the lack of an electricity supply infrastructure. Now we can just plug in and hope that the real motor, namely the power station doesn't go on the blink. Not the idea to spoil the jumping up and down about the Tesla, but all and all nothing new, except that it can rejuvenate the American motor industry, but what a horrible irony for real cars that were made in Detroit.
Point is we need a guy to come up with a miracle, The Tesla is a good effort, but we're still far from where we should be. Hopefully the solution is staring us right in the face as usual.
Last edited by nipponbird; May 9, 2014 at 10:08 AM.
Tesla Delivers 6,457 Model S Vehicles in First Quarter 2014, but Posts $50 Million Net Loss

http://www.carscoops.com/2014/05/tes...hicles-in.html
Tesla Motors said it delivered 6,457 Model S vehicles in the first quarter of this year and built a record 7,535 units of its electric car. In a letter to shareholders, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said the company will expand factory capacity to support increased Model S production later this year and the introduction of Model X (pictured below) next year.
“Extensive development work on Model X is underway and we expect to have production design prototypes ready in Q4,” reads the letter. Production of the new model is expected to start in spring 2015. The company also says it will start construction of the Gigafactory later this year.
Tesla also wants to expand the number of stores and service centers by 75 percent this year, with the Supercharger network targeting an even faster pace. The company wants to install 200 Superchargers worldwide this year, which is double the number of existing stations.
Tesla’s expansion also includes the launch of a right-hand-drive Model S next month for the UK market and in Japan and Hong Kong later this summer.
However, there is also bad news: despite the record production numbers, Tesla posted a net loss of $49.8 million (€35.7 million) in the first quarter, while revenue rose to $620 million. During the same quarter last year, the automaker posted a net income of $11.3 million, on a $555 million revenue.
“Extensive development work on Model X is underway and we expect to have production design prototypes ready in Q4,” reads the letter. Production of the new model is expected to start in spring 2015. The company also says it will start construction of the Gigafactory later this year.
Tesla also wants to expand the number of stores and service centers by 75 percent this year, with the Supercharger network targeting an even faster pace. The company wants to install 200 Superchargers worldwide this year, which is double the number of existing stations.
Tesla’s expansion also includes the launch of a right-hand-drive Model S next month for the UK market and in Japan and Hong Kong later this summer.
However, there is also bad news: despite the record production numbers, Tesla posted a net loss of $49.8 million (€35.7 million) in the first quarter, while revenue rose to $620 million. During the same quarter last year, the automaker posted a net income of $11.3 million, on a $555 million revenue.

still, hopefully it's not loss per car net, it because they're spending like drunken sailors on that new battery factory, although i don't believe they've even finalized locations?
Tesla buyers in in Shanghai, China, are getting even more of an incentive to choose its electric sedans. Each purchase of a Model S in the city will come with a free license plate.
That might not sound very important, but Shanghai operates under a government-organized auction system to distribute plates. Last year, they were selling for as much as $15,000, according to Car News China. The measure is a way to control the number of cars on the road, which contribute to the city's bad traffic and poor air quality.
Electric cars are exempt from the auctions and get a free license plate. However, that rule only covers Chinese-made electric cars. Obviously, Tesla doesn't build cars there (at least for now). But the Shanghai government will exempt 3,000 foreign electric cars per automaker to receive free plates, according to CNC. After they are gone, the company would have to go back and ask for more.
Tesla confirmed the plan to Autoblog and pointed out there was a small blurb about it in the automaker's Q1 2014 financial release: "Model S drivers in the city will be entitled to free license plates, thereby avoiding the usual public auction price of $10,000 to $15,000 per plate." It certainly seems like a great enticement to grab early buyers for the Model S there.
That might not sound very important, but Shanghai operates under a government-organized auction system to distribute plates. Last year, they were selling for as much as $15,000, according to Car News China. The measure is a way to control the number of cars on the road, which contribute to the city's bad traffic and poor air quality.
Electric cars are exempt from the auctions and get a free license plate. However, that rule only covers Chinese-made electric cars. Obviously, Tesla doesn't build cars there (at least for now). But the Shanghai government will exempt 3,000 foreign electric cars per automaker to receive free plates, according to CNC. After they are gone, the company would have to go back and ask for more.
Tesla confirmed the plan to Autoblog and pointed out there was a small blurb about it in the automaker's Q1 2014 financial release: "Model S drivers in the city will be entitled to free license plates, thereby avoiding the usual public auction price of $10,000 to $15,000 per plate." It certainly seems like a great enticement to grab early buyers for the Model S there.

The world will be a different place after Elon Musk builds a time traveling device (don't ask us how we know that will happen). For one thing, the Tesla Roadster of the rewritten future will not have been built using the chassis of the Lotus Elise. Also, verb tenses will be becoming even more confusing and, possibly, awkward.
We know about the not-using-the-Lotus thing because the Tesla Motors CEO said as much yesterday at the World Energy Innovation Forum at the Tesla Factory in Fremont. The two-day event, which also offers Model S test rides and a factory tour for attendees, featured a fireside chat with the electric automaker's CEO and Ira Ehrenpreis. During the discussion, Musk revealed that if he had to do it over again, he would have built the Roadster from the ground up instead of using the Lotus Elise chassis. "We ended up changing most of the damn car, so we thought later, why did we do that," he said.
Another problem with the original idea for the car was the drivetrain. At first, Tesla had meant to use the motor and other propulsive bits from AC Propulsion, only to find that powertrain didn't work well in a commercial application. Instead Tesla only licensed the reductive charging patent, which allowed some integration of the inverter and charger.
Besides knocking Tesla's own early efforts, the outspoken entrepreneur took a couple swings at other technologies with quotable quotes such as: "The internal combustion engine is a ridiculous thing!" and "Current lithium ion technology is better than theoretical fuel cell limits. So, game over. Why bother with fuel cells?" Looks like there are some things Musk is not interested in going back in time and changing.
We know about the not-using-the-Lotus thing because the Tesla Motors CEO said as much yesterday at the World Energy Innovation Forum at the Tesla Factory in Fremont. The two-day event, which also offers Model S test rides and a factory tour for attendees, featured a fireside chat with the electric automaker's CEO and Ira Ehrenpreis. During the discussion, Musk revealed that if he had to do it over again, he would have built the Roadster from the ground up instead of using the Lotus Elise chassis. "We ended up changing most of the damn car, so we thought later, why did we do that," he said.
Another problem with the original idea for the car was the drivetrain. At first, Tesla had meant to use the motor and other propulsive bits from AC Propulsion, only to find that powertrain didn't work well in a commercial application. Instead Tesla only licensed the reductive charging patent, which allowed some integration of the inverter and charger.
Besides knocking Tesla's own early efforts, the outspoken entrepreneur took a couple swings at other technologies with quotable quotes such as: "The internal combustion engine is a ridiculous thing!" and "Current lithium ion technology is better than theoretical fuel cell limits. So, game over. Why bother with fuel cells?" Looks like there are some things Musk is not interested in going back in time and changing.




