Stormwind

Eduardo is a shady character (if the movie Social Network depict him correctly) that has nothing to do with facebook other than he "was" a friend of Zuckerberg and helped him finacially before his idea was realized. I don't think Zuckerberg wants him to be running any part of facebook either.

You will also have a hard time finding his name mentioned in facebook (it's tucked away in a small corner) nor is he part of facebook's management team or directors. In another words he is just a blemish that facebook wants to clean up and forget.

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

This article is such bunk. GM is not the only company pulling out from Facebook advertising. internet advertising had proven to be unreliable. And super bowl advertising is too expensive. To be a smart investment. You are able to buy quadruple the amount of advertising time for the same amount. GM is more profitable than it has been in years and the government has made money on the bailout. It's hilarious that people are once again preaching the death knell after a quarter of mediocre results and not looking at almost two years of success after coming out of bankruptcy. GMs portfolio is stronger and more competitive than ever.

Sulu

I don’t believe that it would have been as simple as allowing GM to die and letting their tens of thousands of employees go find work with Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, etc. Remember that Ford and Chrysler themselves were on the brink at the time and so in no position to hire.

This viewpoint also assumes that the auto industry in North America is made up of independent manufacturers. They are not that independent; they rely on – and share – a network of suppliers. Allowing big customers such as GM and Chrysler to go under would have killed a number of struggling suppliers; and reducing the size of the supplier network would have meant that the other manufacturers in North America – domestic and transplants alike - would not be able to source their supplies from North American companies.


I remember reading that allowing GM (and Chrysler) to go completely under would have forced many suppliers to go under also. If GM (and Chrysler) had gone under instead of going through a controlled bankruptcy (with the help of American and Canadian taxpayers), the whole industry would have been affected, for the worse. Toyota and Honda (and no doubt Nissan and BMW and Mercedes-Benz also) may source some components from Japan and Germany, but they also source many components from North American suppliers. (Remember the claim that the Camry is a more American car because it is assembled in the USA and many of its components are sourced from American companies.) If those suppliers suddenly went under, the whole industry would be badly affected.

Since GM, Ford and Chrysler cut loose their major suppliers a number of years ago (such as Delphi, which used to be owned by GM but now is independent), the suppliers have walked a very fine line between staying alive and going out of business; many of them have gone into and come out of bankruptcy.

2008GSh

Not 10's of thousands 100's of thousands, maybe a million, and the ripple effect would have likely brought down Ford too. And to think that these 500,000 former GM and Chrysler employees would have just packed up the Vista Cruiser and moved to Tennessee to build Honda's is a pure pipe dream. Sometimes when industries shut down the jobs are gone forever. Sure they can try and do something else, at the time the unemployment rate was around 9% nationally and well over 20% in Detroit.

I'm off to buy an American made TV, or Camera, or Stereo, or Bicycle, or iPhone, etc... I'll let you know how I make out.

Bdub215

iTrader: (1)

Trust me if you think good GM cars/trucks/ Suv's are being churned out now think again. I'm a GMC tech and I've never seen so many problems from this new breed of cars.
iPhone's are made in china. Most cameras are made in Japan. Same with tv's. You find an 100% American device that you just listed made this year and I'll PayPal you 20 bucks.

Trexus

It's starting to remind me of 2008 all over again.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/the...y-bailout.html

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...-of-money.html

There were other threads as well. I remember that GM lost over $100 Billion over a five year period before the bankruptcy. The taxpayers bailed out GM and GM did pay back some of the money but still owes us plenty...

Dave600hL

Tell me what the benefits of keeping GM afloat?
Now tell what the benefits are of letting them sink?

To me , they are just a lead weight around the tax payers ankles.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Yawn.

It's not just GM, its capitalism failing.

rogers2

I think SULU and a few others have already answered your questions. I just find it amazing how some people not necessary you tend to put a lot American car companies or business down. If Toyota and Honda packed up and left would we really miss them? In the end I guess what I’m saying is that I care more about my country and people losing their jobs than more so the cars GM make.

LexFather

I think Trexus and Dave are simply stating unpopular opinion that is on the money. At this rate then bail out every company and every man, woman and child that needs it. People can't keep yelling "free market' system (which is B.S) then come up with reasons to prop up companies which goes completely against "free market' views. GM saw the writing on the wall for 30 YEARS. 30 YEARS they didn't fix a problem?

Its like the man that smokes for 30 years, gets cancer of the lungs, well what did you expect. You knew the consequences. GM is no different but instead of passing, they were saved, on our dime.

Now I completely agree with the ripple effect if it closed but history has shown another market opens up. It seems manufacturing in the NORTH might be forever lost anyway so we might just be prolonging the inevitable.

Note that all the car manufactering jobs in N.A are largely built in
Canada
Mexico
Southern United States

That should clue you into something. Audi will now build I think A6s in Mexico now. I didn't see any outrage that Audi who is doing well in America decided to sell mostly here but not build here.

Now there is no doubt GM builds a vastly improved product compared to the past. So I can appreciate the product has improved.

I am going to assume that if there is trouble the current Administration is going to try its best to hold off on announcing bad news until after the elections.

bagwell

IMO, if you're so much for American companies and you don't want to see Americans lose their jobs, you should buy a GM vehicle.

I think they are making good vehicles -now- and are on the right path - I don't really agree with the huge bailouts but that's another topic.

Super Bowl ads are a total waste of money - glad to see them NOT doing them....same for Facebook ads.

Trexus

Instead of bailing out GM again and complaining about it we're gonna have to try something different. So let's come up with some new ideas.

-Maybe GM should be sold to another car company similar to what happened to Chrysler. At least Chyrsler is still around it's just owned by Fiat. The new Dodge Viper looks good.

-Maybe GM can focus on building heavy machinery/equipment instead of building cars as edgeucated mentioned earlier.

-Maybe GM can shrink even further by discontinuing Buick and GMC and just keep Chevrolet for the mainstream vehicles and keep Cadillac as the luxury divsion. I understand Buick is doing well in China but maybe GM can absorb Buick into Cadillac.

-It appears GM is cutting heavily on expenses bigtime by not advertising on Facebook and the superbowl which is fine. GM will have to hunker down and prioritize which expenses will need to cut and which they can allow kinda like what Carlos Ghosen did for Nissan but this only works for a short period of time which should not be a long term goal. (heavy expense cutting)

Obviously no banks are gonna loan money to GM and our Government has given GM plenty of money. Any other ideas out there to save GM before bailing them out again?

2008GSh

That was my point, to think that job losses will ALWAYS be absorbed within your country or economy is not reality, they are talking points. And badly spun ones at that.

2008GSh

Near the end GM was burning through 1 Billion per month. But what people forget or ignore, is that the Federal government has some responsibility to the "former" employees if GM had liquidated into Ch7. Dirty little secret, the Federal government insures pensions, and there is all of the Unemployment benefits. Ya the federal government will probably never recover the last 10-15 Billion that they will lose on the GM bailout. The cost of a GM collapse would have been considerably more than the cost of the bailout.

There is a reason that this bailout was implemented and designed by a Republican administration. I was only concluded by the current one.

2008GSh

As a former GM owner (and long time sufferer). Most of their problems exist with the dealer network and how that is managed and supported. Ask any GM customer and they are normally not treated all that well by their dealers. GM Forums are littered with dealers refusing warranty claims, or just being completely unable to fix anything.

I have personally witnessed dealer staff treat even their best high end Cadillac customers like total crap. I bought my GS second hand not from a dealer, and I get WAY better service then I have ever received from any GM dealer where I bought cars new.

Fix the customer service issues at the dealers and the customers will come back. fail to do that and GM will continue to lose market share until they are insolvent (again) and this time which ever party is in the White House, they will be done, and it will end in total liquidation.