Raralith

Here are my thoughts when I went car shopping this last July looking at Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Lexus:
Looks - Exterior wise, I think Audi's look the best because they look so smooth and sinister. Interior wise, I think Lexus had the best look and feel, and probably the best instrument cluster.
Sportiness - All around, they all look pretty sporty except for probably the Mercedes C300/350.
Comfort - I thought Audi was the least comfortable, everyone else was about the same. I give a tip of the hat to BMW for their high placed navigation units which means you don't need to take your eyes off the road to see.
Luxury - I think Lexus squeeked out on top with Audi on the bottom.
Reliability - This one went to Lexus.
Speed - Tough one, probably the 335i. Everyone says same hp as the IS 350, which is very close, but that low end torque means you get that hp well before the IS 350. Worst was probably the C300/350 but than again, these had much less hp.
Residual Value - I would hope the Lexus, but 2 days after I bought it, the valve spring recall hit the news. I know the BMW x35i has had HPFP propblems since day one, and they just had their recall on that. MB don't ever seem to hold their resale and I have no idea on Audi's.
Handling - I thought BMW had the best handling, and Lexus had the worse. BMW was well balanced, very responsive while the Lexus had a lot of body roll, very dull responsiveness.
Joy of the Ride - I enjoyed them all with the Lexus and BMW out in front, the MB C300 and C350 in a very close last.

I think I would have enjoyed any of those cars, well maybe not the BMW 335i after HPFP problems, but I did eventually choose the Lexus IS 350. I think the most important thing to me was reliability, and the dealership played a roll in my decision too; my wife and I have each purchased our cars there. As for the poor handling, replaced the stock rear sway bar with the F Sport, and that has greatly helped with the body roll. The dull handling is still there though, when I am at a stopped at a light, and I need to make a fast accelorating right turn, the traction control will try to fight you and even if you turn it off, the lack of feel on the steering is still pretty bad.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

I'm surprised that when considering luxury, BRITISH cars are not the first to be thought about.

Jaguar
Land Rover
Bentley
Rolls Royce
Aston Martin
Lotus

If we're talking about luxury and luxury alone, which include an excess of grandeur, opulence, and accommodation; British cars far surpass German and Japanese makes.


Looks, Comfort, and Joy are subjective. A driver can find a car ugly, uncomfortable, and depressing if he wants to look at it that way.

Everything else is measurable and objective. Sportiness, speed, and handling can be measured. Reliability and residual value can be measured, but one car is not representative of the whole brand; nor can one brand prove the reliability of one model.

So, if we only measure sportiness and money factors, you sorta have to think what's the best bang for the buck that you can get. And if I had to answer that, it would be Porsche. (Yes, the Germans take this one...)


In terms of luxury? I'm gonna rank non-exotic cars:

Mercedes Benz tops the list with superb technology, performance, and variety.

Lexus would be second. Lexus is a step behind MB in terms of technology and performance.

Audi is more luxurious than BMW (in a material quality sense), but isn't as performance oriented. Yes, Audi is getting much better, and BMW needs to up the ante with more luxury. Having motorcycles and MINI help BMW be really sport oriented in many other niche markets.

Acura is lost in what they offer; they're Honda Accords with AWD and better leather. Infiniti needs a better breath and depth of cars available.

But like I said in the beginning, British cars have a great blend of luxury and performance. Unfortunately, their reliability and resale values (in general) make them less desireable...

rominl

iTrader: (4)

if i want a car that i can keep without much headaches, the sensible choice is lexus, i don't doubt that. but if i want a car that's really fun and connect me to driving, i will look at euro

they all have their goods and bads. each model has their pros and cons as well. i never see a real winner, i just see a better suit for my personal taste and requirements.

dj.ctwatt

Hyundai's not Japanese, but I certainly think an Equus is more qualified to compete in the luxury arena than an Acura RL. Sorry. I'm not saying the Equus can hang with the big boys. . . but IMO it does a much better job competing than anything from Acura.

LexFather

Considering only German/Japanese cars I think overall the only ones really "worth" it are BMW/Benz/Audi/Lexus. Whereas the Germans have 3 BIG 3, Japan only has one in Lexus. The other 2 are afterthoughts, even with improved lineups and are not highly desirable to most or myself.

This leaves the perception problem that Japanese luxury cars will never be as good as German ones since 2 Japanese brands struggle and are not on par with the others here. Which sucks for Lexus.

You can't really categorize the brands according to sport/luxury since they all offer it now. Some BMW/Benz/Audi's are very boring and not very sporty. Some Lexus are very exciting and are very sporty.

While some people on the internet want to act like image doesn't matter, it does. I like the successful image of BMW, Benz, Lexus. Audi falls off here, only recently being relevant in America. The other two Japanese brands are lol in regards to image. So at that point we can't even group Audi/BMW/BEnz together. Its just BMW and Benz joined by Lexus.

For example yesterday I was at a luxury, exotic, old school. huge car meet. Saw a ML 63, really rare SUV. That got me excited. Seeing the older and newer German cars was exciting, from S5 to CLK Black series, to SLS to modded M5s. IS F, LS's and the LFA are something that also is exciting. I'm weird but hybrids get me excited due to their technology, which Lexus sells.

So in over 20 years one 9th place finish, still above average is the end of the world? It is not, the brand still is considered one of the best in regards to reliability.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

-J-P-L-

Bad taste in cars?

davis449

I'll go ahead and throw in my 2 cents. For me, personally, I like to drive cars and I'll preface my statement here by stating that, overall, I'm more a fan of handling than straight line speed.

When it comes to the overall feel of a car, there's nothing like a German car. Yes, some of them shine better than others they're compared to in certain instances (straight line speed, handling, and overall package), but they each have that "feel" at high speed of surefooted-ness that just can't be matched. I've driven the others and, to me, there's just no comparison. However, if you want most of that package and reliability to go with it, well...Lexus (in particular) can't really be beat. Look at my signature and guess why I bought a Lexus as a daily driver (even though currently it's proving me wrong).

rominl

iTrader: (4)

lol, where do you find mb and bmw? sure if you think you can find a porsche model that fits you (a company that i don't see a full lineup), that's perfect

LexFather

Davis great post!

Also, isn't Porsche a luxury brand too and its German. So its really 4 against 1 1/2

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

-J-P-L-

I'm one who disagrees with the general consensus about German cars, BMW's in particular, superior "feel". This is most notably the BMW 3-series. IMO, it's one of the least enjoyable cars to drive. That's right, I said it! And I've driven hundreds of cars. Most auto journalists, and much of the public rate the 3-series as the benchmark for driving machines (for normal priced cars). I enjoy driving a Japanese econo-box more than the 3. That said, I enjoy the feel of VW's most as far as German cars go and MB's are OK, IMO. Let me explain.

The BMW 3's steering drives me crazy, particularly at low speeds. People talk about "feel", what feel? It takes 3 times the strength to turn the damn thing than the average car. Steering suddenly becomes work. I don't want to feel like I'm steering the Titanic out of quick sand. Granted, this is mostly a problem at parking lot speed and around the city, higher speeds lend itself better to such characteristics. On the other hand, people complain about today's electric boosted steering columns. I love them! I love the effortless and adaptive movement. Aside from steering, I dislike the over done engine braking in many German cars (feels like you have the e-brake engaged all the time). Even the accelerator feel just isn't right. It's often to jumpy. And of course, ergonomics and quality suck in German cars. I do however, appreciate their suspensions, although some are overly rough.

Zippering up flame suit...now.

Trexus

These BRITISH cars were BRITISH once upon a time and as of today are not 100% BRITISH.

Jaguar owned by Tata Motors which is Indian.
Land Rover owned by Tata Motors which is Indian.
Bentley owned by Volkswagen which is German.
Rolls Royce owned by BMW which is German.
Aston Martin owned by a consortium made up of British, Kuwait and American companies.
Lotus owned by Proton which is Malaysian.

As one can see only Aston Martin still has British ties but is not 100% British at all.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

They are not British owned, but these car brands are still British.

Relevant to this thread, the RX is made in Canada. Lots of Mercedes are built in North America too. That doesn't make them less Japanese/German.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i have neighbors who have a bunch of mercedes, ranging in age from about 30 years to about 4. they're all reliable. sure they've had some big work done on them over the years, and some of it isn't cheap, but they're high end cars. if someone expects an SL500 to be the same price to maintain as a corolla they're deluding themselves and it has nothing to do with 'reliability'. i've known MANY people with bmw's, and yes, a few of them have had one of two things that "shouldn't go wrong" but it wasn't the end of the world.

yes, lexus has a well-earned reputation for reliability and quality, precision manufacturing. they also have a reputation for being BORING which they're trying to change with "-F", "LFA", "Touring" models and "F-sport" add-ons. it's a start but a looooooong way from the lead that the German brands have.

i think lexus does best in comfortable, luxurious 'appliances' in different sizes - particularly the ES, LS, and RX. the rest... not so much in any dimension, although the IS350 is a really fun small car (but seriously cramped rear seats and a fairly dull interior).

if i had to choose IS vs. 3 series, i'd get 3 series
if i had to choose GS vs. 5 series, i'd get 5 series (or an ES and save a bundle)
if i had to choose LS vs. 7 series, i'd get the LS
if i had to choose RX vs. X5, i'd get the RX (450h)

for benz, i'd get C class over IS, E over GS, S over LS, but i'd still get an RX over a ML/GLK.

of course all this is without having to open a checkbook and money would inevitably factor in too cuz i know the lexus models are always going to be cheaper.

about infiniti, i think the G37 is an awesome bargain and great car. that's it
about acura, i think the tsx is surprisingly versatile (bigger than you think and has a fold down rear seat, unlike an IS), and i like the mdx, but that's it.

about lexus, they just need to step it up with the IS, GS, LS.