Lotus goes stark raving mad.....
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,266
Likes: 2
From: Washington
So that's Lotus' Toyota IQ. I'm sure there will be lightweight from Lotus still. The Elise will still be less than 2500lbs. The Elan is my favorite, though I bet the cars look different in production. As long as they keep some or most of the lines and looks they'll all be a hit. Performance nearing it's rivals but under cutting their prices by almost half? I see where Lotus is going. The Elite and Elan are the best looking to me. Amazing how much power they've got out of the IS-F's V8!
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,370
Likes: 0
From: NY
So that's Lotus' Toyota IQ. I'm sure there will be lightweight from Lotus still. The Elise will still be less than 2500lbs. The Elan is my favorite, though I bet the cars look different in production. As long as they keep some or most of the lines and looks they'll all be a hit. Performance nearing it's rivals but under cutting their prices by almost half? I see where Lotus is going. The Elite and Elan are the best looking to me. Amazing how much power they've got out of the IS-F's V8!
Boring designs with oh so very little originality or Lotus flair.
They're turning the Elise into a Boxster. Shame. It'll sell more for sure, but still, shame that they have to get rid of their core beliefs for some sales. I for one would be more inclined to buy one now than before. But still, shame. Plus, who's gonna pay 55k for this when you can buy an FT86, turbocharge it, and run circles around it for half the price?
Not sure who's gonna plunk down 180k for an Espirit when it looks that boring.
And the Elite and Eterne... seriously what are you guys doing in a Lotus lineup.
The Elan is the most promising prospect here, imo. Solid performance at a reasonable price. With it coming out in 2013, what are they going to do with the Evora?
Still, I think Lotus is mad for releasing all these vehicles AT ONCE, especially w the vehicles looking boring and dated as they are already... they aren't going to have anything new to show for the next five-six years, and that is a LONG TIME.
They're turning the Elise into a Boxster. Shame. It'll sell more for sure, but still, shame that they have to get rid of their core beliefs for some sales. I for one would be more inclined to buy one now than before. But still, shame. Plus, who's gonna pay 55k for this when you can buy an FT86, turbocharge it, and run circles around it for half the price?
Not sure who's gonna plunk down 180k for an Espirit when it looks that boring.
And the Elite and Eterne... seriously what are you guys doing in a Lotus lineup.
The Elan is the most promising prospect here, imo. Solid performance at a reasonable price. With it coming out in 2013, what are they going to do with the Evora?
Still, I think Lotus is mad for releasing all these vehicles AT ONCE, especially w the vehicles looking boring and dated as they are already... they aren't going to have anything new to show for the next five-six years, and that is a LONG TIME.
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,370
Likes: 0
From: NY
I don't understand you. I don't see anything boring at all. I see a car company who realizes they have to compete to stay afloat and is trying to modernize their offerings. You may not like them (don't understand why), which is your prerogative but give them props for trying. Until seen in the flesh and driven, it's hard to say for sure if these will be winners but I like the effort. Give em a break.
Intermediate
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 392
Likes: 0
From: CA
I talked to a Lotus dealer at the LA Auto Show. He claimed the Elise will be released around $48,500. 
If it comes to fruition, it would be hands down, the best looking car for under even $100,000 ever.
Edit:
Forgot to mention that the Elan gets released one year prior than the Elise at $90,000. That somewhat similar looking car would be the only competition for the Elise.
If it comes to fruition, it would be hands down, the best looking car for under even $100,000 ever.
Edit:
Forgot to mention that the Elan gets released one year prior than the Elise at $90,000. That somewhat similar looking car would be the only competition for the Elise.
Last edited by madoka; Nov 27, 2010 at 08:17 PM. Reason: Forgot to mention another Lotus
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 756
Likes: 2
From: ab
Seems they now want to build their own engine, because their customers might not want to see the "toyota" connection with the car.
http://http://www.autocar.co.uk/News...llCars/254594/
http://http://www.autocar.co.uk/News...llCars/254594/
Bahar also revealed that customer reaction to the new Esprit being powered by a Toyota V8, as was originally planned, was behind the decision.
“In the mind of sports-car enthusiasts, Toyota power might not be good enough,” he said.
“In the mind of sports-car enthusiasts, Toyota power might not be good enough,” he said.
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,370
Likes: 0
From: NY
Seems they now want to build their own engine, because their customers might not want to see the "toyota" connection with the car.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/254594/
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/254594/
p.s. fix your link.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well for one its a Lexus engine, its not in any Toyota's. Douchebags like trying to make ANY "oh its just a Toyota" connection which reveals not just their douchness but their utter ignorance and bias.
Is Lotus going to spend hundreds on millions on a new engine? No. Do you know why? B/C they don't have any freaking money.
If any of these cars doesn't sell it might spell doom for the brand of they will be absorbed by someone.
To make matters worse every single Lotus engine the last few years is a Toyota engine and I haven't heard one person say its a bad thing. If anything its an asset as they are pretty damn indestructible.
What I smell is they want the LFA engine but Toyota is saying **** off. Lotus should be happy b/c the PRIOR agreement was they can have Toyota engines, not Lexus ones (why they don't have DI).
Is Lotus going to spend hundreds on millions on a new engine? No. Do you know why? B/C they don't have any freaking money.
If any of these cars doesn't sell it might spell doom for the brand of they will be absorbed by someone.
To make matters worse every single Lotus engine the last few years is a Toyota engine and I haven't heard one person say its a bad thing. If anything its an asset as they are pretty damn indestructible.
What I smell is they want the LFA engine but Toyota is saying **** off. Lotus should be happy b/c the PRIOR agreement was they can have Toyota engines, not Lexus ones (why they don't have DI).
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,370
Likes: 0
From: NY
Well for one its a Lexus engine, its not in any Toyota's. Douchebags like trying to make ANY "oh its just a Toyota" connection which reveals not just their douchness but their utter ignorance and bias.
Is Lotus going to spend hundreds on millions on a new engine? No. Do you know why? B/C they don't have any freaking money.
If any of these cars doesn't sell it might spell doom for the brand of they will be absorbed by someone.
To make matters worse every single Lotus engine the last few years is a Toyota engine and I haven't heard one person say its a bad thing. If anything its an asset as they are pretty damn indestructible.
What I smell is they want the LFA engine but Toyota is saying **** off. Lotus should be happy b/c the PRIOR agreement was they can have Toyota engines, not Lexus ones (why they don't have DI).
Is Lotus going to spend hundreds on millions on a new engine? No. Do you know why? B/C they don't have any freaking money.
If any of these cars doesn't sell it might spell doom for the brand of they will be absorbed by someone.
To make matters worse every single Lotus engine the last few years is a Toyota engine and I haven't heard one person say its a bad thing. If anything its an asset as they are pretty damn indestructible.
What I smell is they want the LFA engine but Toyota is saying **** off. Lotus should be happy b/c the PRIOR agreement was they can have Toyota engines, not Lexus ones (why they don't have DI).
To be fair, it is a new level of the market, but the fact that they are Toyota (Lexus really) engines is the best thing about them. There is something magic when reliability comes together with supercar, just look at modern porches. If they want to compete with them, spending hundreds of millions to make a motor from scratch, just doesn't make sense at this point in time.
Furthermore, the people that know this (i.e. current lotus buyers) don't care or are enthused about it. Those that they want to be selling to would probably pop open the hood, see lotus on the cam cover and say "look, Lotus engine" and not have a clue.
I've admired Bahars ambition thus far, but this bit concerns me that he might be reaching to hang his hat where his hands can't reach.
Don't be afraid to name names. It's not "them", it's Danny Bahar. I can't help but wonder if this report is accurate. Surely Mr.Bahar would realize that Toyota could take offense....
Wonder if Toyota will have to end up buying them at some point in the future
Guest
Posts: n/a
To be fair, it is a new level of the market, but the fact that they are Toyota (Lexus really) engines is the best thing about them. There is something magic when reliability comes together with supercar, just look at modern porches. If they want to compete with them, spending hundreds of millions to make a motor from scratch, just doesn't make sense at this point in time.
Furthermore, the people that know this (i.e. current lotus buyers) don't care or are enthused about it. Those that they want to be selling to would probably pop open the hood, see lotus on the cam cover and say "look, Lotus engine" and not have a clue.
I've admired Bahars ambition thus far, but this bit concerns me that he might be reaching to hang his hat where his hands can't reach.
Don't be afraid to name names. It's not "them", it's Danny Bahar. I can't help but wonder if this report is accurate. Surely Mr.Bahar would realize that Toyota could take offense....
Wonder if Toyota will have to end up buying them at some point in the future
Furthermore, the people that know this (i.e. current lotus buyers) don't care or are enthused about it. Those that they want to be selling to would probably pop open the hood, see lotus on the cam cover and say "look, Lotus engine" and not have a clue.
I've admired Bahars ambition thus far, but this bit concerns me that he might be reaching to hang his hat where his hands can't reach.
Don't be afraid to name names. It's not "them", it's Danny Bahar. I can't help but wonder if this report is accurate. Surely Mr.Bahar would realize that Toyota could take offense....
Wonder if Toyota will have to end up buying them at some point in the future
I think he's pretty accurate.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...aspx?AR=254521
Automotive elder statesman and former General Motors chief Bob Lutz has said he gives the new Lotus recovery plan “a 60 per cent chance at least” of achieving its objective of launching five new models, moving prices towards the Ł100,000 bracket and finding 6000 to 7000 buyers a year.
Lutz was recently invited by Lotus CEO Dany Bahar to become a member of Lotus’s senior advisory board of industry experts, put together to advise on the running of the company.
Read the full story on all of Lotus's new models
“People keep asking me if I’m sure the new plan will work,” Lutz told Autocar, “and of course I can’t guarantee that. It’s a risk. But I’m quite certain it stands a better chance than the Lotus status quo, which for sure would eventually lead this great brand into terminal decline.”
Lutz admitted that Bahar’s unprecedented strategy of revealing five new models at once contains “a fair bit of showbiz”, and acknowledged that the cars and timings are likely to change a good deal before they hit the market. But he claimed the idea of making cars that are “fantastically desirable” is the only option and exactly the way to go.
He said Lotus’s backers, which indirectly include the Malaysian government, are taking “a pretty big gamble”. But he added, “The engineering I’ve seen so far is very good, and they’re definitely going about it the right way. The money they’re spending on each model is only a fraction of what we’d have spent at GM on similar projects.”
Lutz was recently invited by Lotus CEO Dany Bahar to become a member of Lotus’s senior advisory board of industry experts, put together to advise on the running of the company.
Read the full story on all of Lotus's new models
“People keep asking me if I’m sure the new plan will work,” Lutz told Autocar, “and of course I can’t guarantee that. It’s a risk. But I’m quite certain it stands a better chance than the Lotus status quo, which for sure would eventually lead this great brand into terminal decline.”
Lutz admitted that Bahar’s unprecedented strategy of revealing five new models at once contains “a fair bit of showbiz”, and acknowledged that the cars and timings are likely to change a good deal before they hit the market. But he claimed the idea of making cars that are “fantastically desirable” is the only option and exactly the way to go.
He said Lotus’s backers, which indirectly include the Malaysian government, are taking “a pretty big gamble”. But he added, “The engineering I’ve seen so far is very good, and they’re definitely going about it the right way. The money they’re spending on each model is only a fraction of what we’d have spent at GM on similar projects.”
Pole Position
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,705
Likes: 6
From: Florida
And I give them 40% to succeed. As a matter of fact I give more chance to Tesla and Fisker than to Lotus.
New Esprit is coming that's for sure and no matter what they say it will carry Toyota V8 (if they try to make their own it will be instant death of Lotus and they know that).
They would love to test the waters with that convertible but it will either be that or Elan and that's even stretching it.
The flagship sedan? Just forget about it.
If they want to do Lux/Sport kind of thing they would need Toyota V8s more than anything else, completely different game. That is something Lotus cant make even if they try. They can't gamble with engine and reliability and repeat Esprit story right now so they have to go safe route. Maybe in distant future around 2018/2020 we will see Lotus with their own stuff that actually works but not before that. If that happens it means Lotus has made it.
New Esprit is coming that's for sure and no matter what they say it will carry Toyota V8 (if they try to make their own it will be instant death of Lotus and they know that).
They would love to test the waters with that convertible but it will either be that or Elan and that's even stretching it.
The flagship sedan? Just forget about it.
If they want to do Lux/Sport kind of thing they would need Toyota V8s more than anything else, completely different game. That is something Lotus cant make even if they try. They can't gamble with engine and reliability and repeat Esprit story right now so they have to go safe route. Maybe in distant future around 2018/2020 we will see Lotus with their own stuff that actually works but not before that. If that happens it means Lotus has made it.