What is the CT's role in Lexus?
What is the CT's role in Lexus?
As Lexus expands its line-up with more hybrids, i was wondering on what role will the new CT play in their arsenal. The case was made for the HS which can be an hybrid alternative to the ES until they come out with an ESh if they do. But the CT kinda baffles me a little as it will basically be in its own niche with no direct competition. Do you think the effort should've went into an ESh instead or maybe even an IS-Ch. I know Lexus likes to break into new niches but can someone enlighten me on this move. I'm a Toyota/Lexus fan for life and has been a little concerned for them lately due to the negative media attention plus the added competition from Hyundai and resurgent Ford. Just want them to make the right moves. 
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Discussed below... In a nutshell
-adds younger buyers
-helps with CAFE standards
-smaller luxury is the new trend
-will increase sales in Europe
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l?highlight=ct
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l?highlight=ct
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l?highlight=ct
We talked about the ESh recently here.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l?highlight=es
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es3...l?highlight=es
ESh summary
"we don't know why"
-adds younger buyers
-helps with CAFE standards
-smaller luxury is the new trend
-will increase sales in Europe
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l?highlight=ct
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l?highlight=ct
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l?highlight=ct
We talked about the ESh recently here.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...l?highlight=es
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es3...l?highlight=es
ESh summary
"we don't know why"
CL Community Team
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,566
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From: San Francisco, CA
IMO, it is a bit redundant. I think should they have just chosen either the HS or the CT, but not both. Those resources used to make the other model could have been used to produce something else (SC maybe?). However, I think the HS was always planned to be a NA car only, and the CT a car for Europe. However, once the car was so well received when it was unveiled, it was also chosen for here too.
IMO, it is a bit redundant. I think should they have just chosen either the HS or the CT, but not both. Those resources used to make the other model could have been used to produce something else (SC maybe?). However, I think the HS was always planned to be a NA car only, and the CT a car for Europe. However, once the car was so well received when it was unveiled, it was also chosen for here too.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: NY
IMO, it is a bit redundant. I think should they have just chosen either the HS or the CT, but not both. Those resources used to make the other model could have been used to produce something else (SC maybe?). However, I think the HS was always planned to be a NA car only, and the CT a car for Europe. However, once the car was so well received when it was unveiled, it was also chosen for here too.
to be honest, imho, it's a bit redundant like rxsf said, and to certain extends it tries a bit too hard to make the brand "popular" and more "mainstream", sort of losing sense of exclusivity of a luxury brand
Looking at the big picture, the CT and HS cater to different clientele.
The CT is more of a European market product, providing a sporty space-efficient hatch/wagon. This would compete with the likes of the VW Golf, Audi A3, BMW 1-Series hatch, Mercedes A-Class, MINI Cooper, Mazda3, etc. It is the best Lexus product that will appeal to the European masses.
The HS is more of an Asian market product, providing a more reserved but technologically savvy family mid-sized sedan. This would compete with the likes of the international Honda Accord (aka Acura TSX), Audi A4, Volvo S40, and to some extent, be an "upgrade" from both the Prius and Camry. It has not sold well in the U.S, but it is selling beyond expectation in Japan and other markets.
The ES was appropriately made for the American market, providing maximum passenger space and comfort with entry-level luxury amenities. It would do well as a hybrid, and it would minimally effect cross-marketing of the CT and HS. If the ES maintains its larger capacity/size, it will compete with "old school" brands such as Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln.
And if you notice the models of cars I referenced, not many are cross-shopped between the three groups...
The CT is more of a European market product, providing a sporty space-efficient hatch/wagon. This would compete with the likes of the VW Golf, Audi A3, BMW 1-Series hatch, Mercedes A-Class, MINI Cooper, Mazda3, etc. It is the best Lexus product that will appeal to the European masses.
The HS is more of an Asian market product, providing a more reserved but technologically savvy family mid-sized sedan. This would compete with the likes of the international Honda Accord (aka Acura TSX), Audi A4, Volvo S40, and to some extent, be an "upgrade" from both the Prius and Camry. It has not sold well in the U.S, but it is selling beyond expectation in Japan and other markets.
The ES was appropriately made for the American market, providing maximum passenger space and comfort with entry-level luxury amenities. It would do well as a hybrid, and it would minimally effect cross-marketing of the CT and HS. If the ES maintains its larger capacity/size, it will compete with "old school" brands such as Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln.
And if you notice the models of cars I referenced, not many are cross-shopped between the three groups...
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Lexus Test Driver
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I don't see the CT going over well here in the States. My heart would not have been broken if they didn't offer it to us. Overall, I don't think hatchbacks sell well in America and they convey more of a cheap, economy car persona- not something I feel Lexus should be chasing with their higher tier status.
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Don't forget everyone, CAFE standards are changing. I agree that the HS/CT are not what many of us truly desire (coupes anyone). I assume Lexus felt that gas prices would be higher to warrant the two as well. That hasn't happened here.
RXSF does make the great point the CT really is for Europe and to expand Lexus sales there. Thus it is supposed to drive Euro and be a great drive. While the HS may not look great it does drive pretty damn good for a FWD car, better than the ES which is catered to Americans.
Lexus Test Driver
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From: somewhere out there
IMO, it is a bit redundant. I think should they have just chosen either the HS or the CT, but not both. Those resources used to make the other model could have been used to produce something else (SC maybe?). However, I think the HS was always planned to be a NA car only, and the CT a car for Europe. However, once the car was so well received when it was unveiled, it was also chosen for here too.
Looking at the big picture, the CT and HS cater to different clientele.
The CT is more of a European market product, providing a sporty space-efficient hatch/wagon. This would compete with the likes of the VW Golf, Audi A3, BMW 1-Series hatch, Mercedes A-Class, MINI Cooper, Mazda3, etc. It is the best Lexus product that will appeal to the European masses.
The HS is more of an Asian market product, providing a more reserved but technologically savvy family mid-sized sedan. This would compete with the likes of the international Honda Accord (aka Acura TSX), Audi A4, Volvo S40, and to some extent, be an "upgrade" from both the Prius and Camry. It has not sold well in the U.S, but it is selling beyond expectation in Japan and other markets.
The ES was appropriately made for the American market, providing maximum passenger space and comfort with entry-level luxury amenities. It would do well as a hybrid, and it would minimally effect cross-marketing of the CT and HS. If the ES maintains its larger capacity/size, it will compete with "old school" brands such as Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln.
And if you notice the models of cars I referenced, not many are cross-shopped between the three groups...
The CT is more of a European market product, providing a sporty space-efficient hatch/wagon. This would compete with the likes of the VW Golf, Audi A3, BMW 1-Series hatch, Mercedes A-Class, MINI Cooper, Mazda3, etc. It is the best Lexus product that will appeal to the European masses.
The HS is more of an Asian market product, providing a more reserved but technologically savvy family mid-sized sedan. This would compete with the likes of the international Honda Accord (aka Acura TSX), Audi A4, Volvo S40, and to some extent, be an "upgrade" from both the Prius and Camry. It has not sold well in the U.S, but it is selling beyond expectation in Japan and other markets.
The ES was appropriately made for the American market, providing maximum passenger space and comfort with entry-level luxury amenities. It would do well as a hybrid, and it would minimally effect cross-marketing of the CT and HS. If the ES maintains its larger capacity/size, it will compete with "old school" brands such as Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln.
And if you notice the models of cars I referenced, not many are cross-shopped between the three groups...
The ES, HS, and CT are all niche cars that were designed for different markets.
As you said the ES was clearly made for the US market (and is sold primarily only in the US market). The HS was designed for the Asian-Pacific market (although it is ONLY sold Japan and US), and the CT was clearly made for Europe.
We probably get all of those cars here in the US because we're Lexus's largest car market, but it would have been better if each specific market (Europe/US/Asia) got only one specialty car.
The IS/GS/LS/RX are Lexus's global cars sold in all markets, and these other cars should be placed in markets that demand them. Americans want big cushy luxury cars. Europeans wants small sporty hatches, and Asians want small hybrid sedans. Lexus give the people what they want!
CL Community Team
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,566
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From: San Francisco, CA
hybrid is the key word here. BMW has the 1 series hatch, Audi has the A3 and now A1. Benz has the A/B class and has offered the C class hatch for sometime.
Don't forget everyone, CAFE standards are changing. I agree that the HS/CT are not what many of us truly desire (coupes anyone). I assume Lexus felt that gas prices would be higher to warrant the two as well. That hasn't happened here.
RXSF does make the great point the CT really is for Europe and to expand Lexus sales there. Thus it is supposed to drive Euro and be a great drive. While the HS may not look great it does drive pretty damn good for a FWD car, better than the ES which is catered to Americans.
Don't forget everyone, CAFE standards are changing. I agree that the HS/CT are not what many of us truly desire (coupes anyone). I assume Lexus felt that gas prices would be higher to warrant the two as well. That hasn't happened here.
RXSF does make the great point the CT really is for Europe and to expand Lexus sales there. Thus it is supposed to drive Euro and be a great drive. While the HS may not look great it does drive pretty damn good for a FWD car, better than the ES which is catered to Americans.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,468
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From: Vancouver, BC
Looking at the big picture, the CT and HS cater to different clientele.
The CT is more of a European market product, providing a sporty space-efficient hatch/wagon. This would compete with the likes of the VW Golf, Audi A3, BMW 1-Series hatch, Mercedes A-Class, MINI Cooper, Mazda3, etc. It is the best Lexus product that will appeal to the European masses.
The HS is more of an Asian market product, providing a more reserved but technologically savvy family mid-sized sedan. This would compete with the likes of the international Honda Accord (aka Acura TSX), Audi A4, Volvo S40, and to some extent, be an "upgrade" from both the Prius and Camry. It has not sold well in the U.S, but it is selling beyond expectation in Japan and other markets.
The ES was appropriately made for the American market, providing maximum passenger space and comfort with entry-level luxury amenities. It would do well as a hybrid, and it would minimally effect cross-marketing of the CT and HS. If the ES maintains its larger capacity/size, it will compete with "old school" brands such as Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln.
And if you notice the models of cars I referenced, not many are cross-shopped between the three groups...
The CT is more of a European market product, providing a sporty space-efficient hatch/wagon. This would compete with the likes of the VW Golf, Audi A3, BMW 1-Series hatch, Mercedes A-Class, MINI Cooper, Mazda3, etc. It is the best Lexus product that will appeal to the European masses.
The HS is more of an Asian market product, providing a more reserved but technologically savvy family mid-sized sedan. This would compete with the likes of the international Honda Accord (aka Acura TSX), Audi A4, Volvo S40, and to some extent, be an "upgrade" from both the Prius and Camry. It has not sold well in the U.S, but it is selling beyond expectation in Japan and other markets.
The ES was appropriately made for the American market, providing maximum passenger space and comfort with entry-level luxury amenities. It would do well as a hybrid, and it would minimally effect cross-marketing of the CT and HS. If the ES maintains its larger capacity/size, it will compete with "old school" brands such as Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln.
And if you notice the models of cars I referenced, not many are cross-shopped between the three groups...
I love hatches/wagons/liftbacks.
I guess I'm the minority of Americans but I would buy a CTh. I would like it much better if it were AWD however. I live in the northeast where hatches and wagons are a common sight, we also love our hybrids and AWD cars.
I guess I'm the minority of Americans but I would buy a CTh. I would like it much better if it were AWD however. I live in the northeast where hatches and wagons are a common sight, we also love our hybrids and AWD cars.