Did Saturn HAVE to Fail?
03-14-10, 01:24 PM
#1
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Did Saturn HAVE to Fail?
Here's a well-written article I came across recently, out of TIME magazine. The author (Brad Tuttle) seems to have really hit the nail on the head.....I feel the exact same way he does. Saturn really started to fall apart around the year 2000,when they lost their original sense of purpose.
http://money.blogs.time.com/2009/10/...y-save-saturn/
Can't Somebody Save Saturn?
Posted by Brad Tuttle
http://money.blogs.time.com/2009/10/...y-save-saturn/
Can't Somebody Save Saturn?
Posted by Brad Tuttle
I have a soft spot in my heart for Saturn. The first new car I could truly call my own was a bare bones Saturn SL. The sticker price was around $11,000, and with Saturn's original no-hassle-no-haggling policy, I happily paid the sticker price. I delivered pizzas and drove cross-country in that super reliable, unsexy, no-A/C vehicle, and I loved it.
And so I'm bummed that, barring a miracle, Saturn will be no more. Penske was supposed to buy Saturn, but now the deal is dead, and it looks like Saturn is as well.
In all honesty, I guess I should have mourned the death of Saturn long ago. At some point around the millennium, the brand changed. It began making more car models, including SUVs, and its flat, no-haggling-sticker-price policy—a pleasant alternative for many, many buyers who sweat out the aggravating "come into the office and let's talk" game that car dealers play—began to get jumbled. Basically, a Saturn was becoming just another GM car, in many ways indistinguishable from a Chrysler or Chevy. And sales fell just like they did with other GM cars.
I'm not sure who is more at fault for Saturn's demise. Did Saturn simply sell out and lose its original sense of mission? Or did American drivers fail to buy into Saturn in large enough numbers, leaving the car maker no choice but to tweak that mission? If more people had chosen Saturn sedans over Ford Explorers, perhaps Saturn could have stuck with the original game plan.
What Saturn had in the early days was rare: It was an American brand that many consumers (not just me, that's for sure) believed in. The company produced a product that, shockingly, consumers believed was worth the retail price. Plainly put, a Saturn was a good value. You knew what you were getting, you knew what you'd pay, and you were happy about both. Why is that such a rare thing?
R.I.P.
And so I'm bummed that, barring a miracle, Saturn will be no more. Penske was supposed to buy Saturn, but now the deal is dead, and it looks like Saturn is as well.
In all honesty, I guess I should have mourned the death of Saturn long ago. At some point around the millennium, the brand changed. It began making more car models, including SUVs, and its flat, no-haggling-sticker-price policy—a pleasant alternative for many, many buyers who sweat out the aggravating "come into the office and let's talk" game that car dealers play—began to get jumbled. Basically, a Saturn was becoming just another GM car, in many ways indistinguishable from a Chrysler or Chevy. And sales fell just like they did with other GM cars.
I'm not sure who is more at fault for Saturn's demise. Did Saturn simply sell out and lose its original sense of mission? Or did American drivers fail to buy into Saturn in large enough numbers, leaving the car maker no choice but to tweak that mission? If more people had chosen Saturn sedans over Ford Explorers, perhaps Saturn could have stuck with the original game plan.
What Saturn had in the early days was rare: It was an American brand that many consumers (not just me, that's for sure) believed in. The company produced a product that, shockingly, consumers believed was worth the retail price. Plainly put, a Saturn was a good value. You knew what you were getting, you knew what you'd pay, and you were happy about both. Why is that such a rare thing?
R.I.P.
03-14-10, 01:38 PM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
Unfortunately, Brad seems to oversimplify. If Saturn had made a better effort to continually develop its line-up, rather than let the original SL, which was marginally competitive with foreign imports, continue with little update for a decade, maybe they wouldn't have to sell out.
Yes--I know--GM handcuffed them by not opening up the treasure chest.
But the ultimate point is the same--it's a shame that Saturn had to die.
Yes--I know--GM handcuffed them by not opening up the treasure chest.
But the ultimate point is the same--it's a shame that Saturn had to die.
03-14-10, 02:00 PM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Perhaps.....but he represents the opinion of hundereds of thousands who liked the original S-series, and helped made Saturn the success it was.
You have to also look at WHY the S-series was competitive. It not only had a rarity for small domestic cars (a better-than-average Consumer Reports reliability rating), but also no-dicker pricing, easy-option orders, hand-washings with each service, dent/ding/rust/corrosion-proof body panels, and an ingenious spin-off transmisison filter that made fluid changes an easy, no-mess snap. And, on top of that, a 30-day/1000 money-return guarantee with clear title and no significant vehicle damage.
Agreed. 
If Saturn had made a better effort to continually develop its line-up, rather than let the original SL, which was marginally competitive with foreign imports, continue with little update for a decade, maybe they wouldn't have to sell out.
Yes--I know--GM handcuffed them by not opening up the treasure chest.
But the ultimate point is the same--it's a shame that Saturn had to die.
But the ultimate point is the same--it's a shame that Saturn had to die.
03-14-10, 02:22 PM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
On a standard S-series Saturn without accessories, the average mark-up from wholesale to retail was around 14%. That sounds like a lot, but Saturn used that money for a lot of customer perks, rather than pure profit. For instance, they held nice gatherings at the dealerships (oops, retailers) for their customers, and gave away free auto-show tickets.
03-14-10, 04:48 PM
#6
Recovering Lexus Addict
Saturn seemed to go through 3 stages:
- Early engine and oil problems: a number of early owners swore off the brand. A couple former clients had these cars. Yikes, they never stopped talking about how bad their cars were.
- The golden years: loyal buyers. One lady I know bought a wagon, rolled it about a year later, and went back to the dealer to buy another one - same style, same color. A co-worker is still driving his S with over 250K miles. His "new" one only has about 60K miles and his wife drives it. He bought a pickup to replace his S, but decided to keep it for commuting.
- The end game: just another GM brand. The only happy owners I know have Vues. But, they realize there are other GM brands with the same vehicle for the future.
- Early engine and oil problems: a number of early owners swore off the brand. A couple former clients had these cars. Yikes, they never stopped talking about how bad their cars were.
- The golden years: loyal buyers. One lady I know bought a wagon, rolled it about a year later, and went back to the dealer to buy another one - same style, same color. A co-worker is still driving his S with over 250K miles. His "new" one only has about 60K miles and his wife drives it. He bought a pickup to replace his S, but decided to keep it for commuting.
- The end game: just another GM brand. The only happy owners I know have Vues. But, they realize there are other GM brands with the same vehicle for the future.
03-14-10, 05:08 PM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
- The golden years: loyal buyers. One lady I know bought a wagon, rolled it about a year later, and went back to the dealer to buy another one - same style, same color.
A co-worker is still driving his S with over 250K miles. His "new" one only has about 60K miles and his wife drives it. He bought a pickup to replace his S, but decided to keep it for commuting.
- The end game: just another GM brand. The only happy owners I know have Vues. But, they realize there are other GM brands with the same vehicle for the future.
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03-14-10, 05:09 PM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
Saturns, like Carmax, were rip-offs. Not allowing customers to haggle allowed the company to twist profits in their direction. This greedy and selfish act takes away the opportunity for a customer to save money AND get a good car- all in one. There are other manufacturers that allow you to have your cake and eat it too.
03-14-10, 05:18 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Saturns, like Carmax, were rip-offs. Not allowing customers to haggle allowed the company to twist profits in their direction. This greedy and selfish act takes away the opportunity for a customer to save money AND get a good car- all in one. There are other manufacturers that allow you to have your cake and eat it too.
In Saturn's case, I disagree that it was a rip-off. For one, it made first-time car buying a LOT easier for young people, first-time buyers, and those who just didn't want the hassles of a Middle-East-Bazzar buying atmosphere where people spend all afternoon just agreeing on the price of a rug. Second, as I mentioned earlier, Saturn didn't just pocket all the the money (the average mark-up in the early days was around 14%). they turned much of it back into customer perks and benefits....things like free car-washes, periodic dealership parties for customers, complementary auto-show tickets, etc....
03-14-10, 05:42 PM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
No-haggle deals weren't (and aren't) just a feature of Saturn and Car Max. Oldsmobile used them, for a while, at selected dealerships, in the 1990's. So did some other brands, here and there, on a trial basis. Scion, a Toyota division, still uses them today.......like Saturn, it has done so since its conception.
In Saturn's case, I disagree that it was a rip-off. For one, it made first-time car buying a LOT easier for young people, first-time buyers, and those who just didn't want the hassles of a Middle-East-Bazzar buying atmosphere where people spend all afternoon just agreeing on the price of a rug. Second, as I mentioned earlier, Saturn didn't just pocket all the the money (the average mark-up in the early days was around 14%). they turned much of it back into customer perks and benefits....things like free car-washes, periodic dealership parties for customers, complementary auto-show tickets, etc....
In Saturn's case, I disagree that it was a rip-off. For one, it made first-time car buying a LOT easier for young people, first-time buyers, and those who just didn't want the hassles of a Middle-East-Bazzar buying atmosphere where people spend all afternoon just agreeing on the price of a rug. Second, as I mentioned earlier, Saturn didn't just pocket all the the money (the average mark-up in the early days was around 14%). they turned much of it back into customer perks and benefits....things like free car-washes, periodic dealership parties for customers, complementary auto-show tickets, etc....
Moreover, I would much rather save $25 a month on a car payment then have parties and circus shows. Again, this dumbs down young people and encourages the popular trend of "gifts, instead of savings." (cell phone companies do the same scamming)
Last edited by Fizzboy7; 03-14-10 at 11:13 PM.
03-14-10, 11:13 PM
#12
Lexus Connoisseur
If Saturn kept the formula that made them a cult following from the beginning, I feel certain that Saturn would still be around today.
03-14-10, 11:23 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
did they change the hassle free shopping .??? I wasnt aware. I had a conversation with a staff member who went on and on about how it was so stress free buying the car
03-15-10, 05:15 AM
#14
Recovering Lexus Addict
But what a better time for someone young to learn how to beat back a dealership and practice frugality. By weaning a first time buyer on the no-haggle experience, it doesn't allow them the chance to learn how to save the most possible money. This is a disservice, not a favor. Saturn put the blinders on them and robbed them of any chance of practicing effective buying skills.
