i agree with you on how it feels natural, i guess its more of a preference my friend always argues with me that dsg pdk or watever automatics there are these days are way better and all i tell him is that you will never understand how a manual feels and how you feel alot more connected to the car. I drive my brothers is250 sometimes and it is automatic with the paddle shifters but it feels soo fake to me to where i don't even find the point in using it. I for one will be really sad if manuals become obsolete

 

Right. However, your quoting of my response, with the others, is misdirected, or pulled out of context.

I'm opposed to the hypothetical argument that manual makes you a superior driver in emergency situations (post #123). As a driver of both, I haven't had an experience in my life, where alternative actions on my part couldn't have some bearing on the outcome of a situation, as opposed to attributing safety to manual or auto.

 

the fun of driving is going away.....sad.

 

How is it going away? Is focusing on pushing pedals and playing with the gear lever instead of the road fun?

 

It's not a matter of instead, but for some of us, rowing our own gears is part of the fun.

Regardless of the whole MT vs. AT debate, or where you lie on it (we've done that to death at this point ), for a lot of us, it is one quintessential connections in the whole "man-and-machine" equation. It's part of how we feel as if we're as one with our vehicle. May not be logical, but it is an emotional connection to some degree.

 

Agreed, even though the performance, mileage, driveability and other practical justifications are rapidly diminishing for manuals.

But I know from experience with my last 3 manual tranny Porsches used exclusively as weekend sports cars (not dd's), the manual enhanced the fun factor.

 

How about the reliability issues on a 130k manual versus a 130k auto?

I still feel like everyone should know how to drive a manual, just to KNOW, obviously to some (or most) it's a PITA to drive a manual in heavy traffic, I don't have too much of a problem with it, but hey, to each their own... I like feeling more connected to the car, so meh.

 

Short answer (especially with Toyota/Lexus since we are on CL and many of us own Lexus vehicles) is the manual will be more expensive typically due to clutch replacement(s) over the long haul.

 

Good point and let me share my experience. I have a 92 ES 300 manual. Its so rare when I have taken it to Lexus in the past, they were like "manual". Most don't even know it exists. Parts are hard to come by. Techs have no experience with it. I loved it when I was younger but today it was a mistake. Is it more involving? Yes. Is it rare? Hell yes. Have I replaced like 3 clutches. Yes. And 2 trannies (I was hard on it).

I remember years ago when I was looking for a wood shift **** for it the store employee to me "Lexus does not make manuals" . I chuckled as I was stunned he thought I didn't know WTF I drove. I took him outside and he was shocked, never saw one before or heard of one.

Manuals in a Lexus to me are just no good. They don't make good ones. The IS 300 got a 5 speed from the Supra b/c the 6 speed in the Altezza would not hold the torque over time. It would wear and die. Another example of an application in need of help.

Again all manuals make no sense to me. I am not going to suggest a manual in a Lexus just b/c manuals are better. In something like a 370Z I am more inclined to suggest one.

 

Well the thing is my friend's 1IS has tranny problems and he's at what, 150k miles? I'm looking to get an SC400, and I told him my car's transmission is probably at 296k, engine at 140k give or take and it's still running real strong. Thing is, is getting a high mileage auto sensible? Price also plays a factor in this too as I wouldn't want to purchase a $7k+ car and have to repair the transmission within XXX amount of miles.

Obviously clutch is a PITA when you got to change it out but if you drive it normally, it should last theoretically at least 70k miles no?

 

What do you mean the torque wouldn't hold? Enlighten me please. I figured that the IS and SC didn't get a 6 speed because they had the N/A version of the Supra's engine, had the SC or IS received the GTE instead of the GE, things would have been different. And, the GE didn't put out enough to warrant a stronger 5 speed, like the R154.

 

The guy I bought mine from bought it at 50k miles, sold it to me at 90k, and now I'm at about 135k, and I believe the original clutch. It acts up a little bit (chattery on grabs occasionally), but doesn't slip at all when I give it the gas.

I believe I'm on the stock clutch because he had no documentation of it ever being changed before he owned it, he never changed it, and if it has been changed, it hasn't been since 50k anyway. So they can last a long time.

I believe there was one SC that was in Autoweek about a year ago (this comes up any time we're talking SC longevity), that had close to 600k on his car, and he was on his 3rd clutch ever. I suppose it's all in how you drive it.

 

Clutch life varies so much depending on use. And buying a $7K high-mileage Lexus could result in a repair later that exceeds the used car purchase price, the risk is always there. At some point it becomes a disposable car anyway.


This scenario is so out of the mainstream and not really relevant to the OP's oriiginal topic.

 

I know a 75-year-old woman who would put some of you older guys to shame!

She DDs a Lotus Elise, and autocrosses and tracks it as well. I think the elise only comes in stick, same thing with the S2000 and the ae86 GTS corolla.

Lots of good points for both autos and manuals.

Can we have a consensus that:

High HP cars can get away with autos, pdks, smgs, what have you.

Low HP cars can only stand to benefit with a manual tranny.


My mom is the only person in our household who can't drive a stick. My 17-yr-old brother wants to get a stick for his first car.

To Fay:

I knew you got rid of the IS300 for an M3, didn't know it was a stick! Congrats! I'll be in Vancouver this summer for my cousin's wedding.

The day I can't drive a stick is when I hand in my license. (OK, maybe not, but I do have a bad left knee.)

 

Let me clarify. IN testing the 5 speed was robust enough to handle the power of the I-6 for years to come. The IS 200 had an I-6 but with only 153 or so hp. The Altezza got a high revving 200hp I-4 with a 6 speed manual.

Toyota engineers knew the 6 speed could work in the IS 300 but over time it would not be able to handle the higher torque rating and it would fail. The Altezza I-4 was peaky with low torque whereas the IS 300 had ample torque in comparison.

Thus they gave it the 5 speed.