joe80

here is another positive review
http://autos.aol.com/article/2011-hyundai-sonata

so far review has been good to great. i think C/D's review is probably the worst. I think they are setting up another Accord win in their future comparison test.

i didn't really notice the wind noise because i didn't drive past 65mph. i think handling wise it's above average, but not mazda6 which is fine by me. hyundai is estimating 7.1 0-60 according to here

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/201...k=MW_news_stmp

but motor trend got 8.1 which is bit disappointing although no one will drag race in this car. maybe you have to use paddle shifter to get down to low 7's? i don't know. but my buddy got spanked by TSX in a drag race.

joe80

Later in the day after my drive in the Sonata, I had the opportunity to sit down with Hyundai CEO John Krafcik again. I asked him how the company had been able to innovate so quickly -- from the design and technological leaps in product to being the first manufacturer offering a Cash for Clunkers rebate program. His response was surprising but absolutely in keeping with what we've come to expect from their products.

"We have four vice presidents -- that's all," he said. "When I have a staff meeting, we can literally do it in a closet. We can make decisions very, very quickly."

It's showing. For all the hype about Hyundai over the last 12 months, the company is really walking the walk and doing it fast. If you're looking for a new sedan around $20,000, you absolutely must put it on your list.

I8ABMR

Honda and Toyota need to be worried about the gains that Hyundai is making. In the end the American consumer is NOT in love with Japanese cars we are in love with reliability and long term performance. If the Koreans are going to give this to us for less then thats who will win the business

joe80

Toyota has been aware of hyundai for a while. but of course they have much bigger fish to fry.

but i really do think Honda is the company that has most to lose. Honda has steadily declined in sales, and honda/accura only sold 20k more than hyundai/kia. i think sooner or later hyundai/kia will pass honda/acura especially if they continue the horrible design trend.

spwolf

i met with some toyota execs that were in charge for our 7-8 country region, from japan, and 8 years ago they told me Hyundai and KIA are great companies.

mmarshall

I think Toyota needs to be more worried about Hyundai than Honda. Besides the obvious, well-publicized Toyota problems in the media, the interior fit-and-finish and hardware quality of several of their newer models has taken a nose dive....though Toyota paint is still superb, like it has been for years, and Toyota engines/transmissions are still smooth as butter (if the throttles don't stick).

Honda has not had the fit/finish/hardware drop that Toyota has, though, admittedly, some newer Honda interiors have hard plastic just like that from other manufacturers. But Honda, IMO, still assembles a car like a Swiss Watch, with unmatched precision...especially the Accord and CR-V. Hyundai, though, is approaching, and currently is very close to, Honda-like levels of precision assembly. The Hyundai warrany, of course, cannot be matched by either Toyota or Honda, and Hyundai, of course, undercuts both of them in price.....though not as much as they used to. With improved Hyundai quality has also come slightly higher prices (no suprise there, of course).

mmarshall

Honda will be way up in the automotive market for a long time....it's core of loyal customers is just too large, and it is not suffering from massive recalls and negative publicity like Toyota.

Acura, though..........now there, you may have a point. The public is only going to take so much of parrot-beak grilles, Honda-level interior trim (the RL, with a superb interior, of course, being an exception), and ridiculous rooflines like on the new ZDX before they rebel.

LexBob2

All of this will be good for the car buying consumer. Better/competitive cars will be built by Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc., and dealers will be eager to sell you one of their cars with better prices.

TRDFantasy

Some quotes from the AOL review:

Ford tried to do that in the late 1990s with the Taurus, and they failed. The midsize sedan category is the wrong category to be doing this.

Yes, and some buyers will be scratching their heads as to where that "lost" generation went, as this car has zero continuity compared to the previous-gen Sonata.

No they didn't . Apple created a history of innovative design and products that people though of as cool, along with intuitive interfaces. Intuitive interfaces are NOT the same thing as taking away features. Talk to any Apple fan, and virtually nobody will you they like Apple because they have "fewer features".

Yet most of the competition already achieves within 1-2 mpg of that, and a few major competitors are due to be redesigned soon .

"Innovate so quickly"? I think this journalist needs to do a lot more research here.

Has Hyundai improved tremendously? Yes.
Has Hyundai grown very quickly? Yes.
Have they been very innovative? Definitely no.

IS-SV

^^^ Agreed w/LexBox, nice to have a choice of competitive cars/commidities to shop and pricing is critical for closing deals.

TRDFantasy

For once I agree with you. Honda is set to lose the most here as Hyundai improves, even though Hyundai wants to be the next Toyota and imitates Toyota in almost every way.

Hyundai is moving away from bigger engines it looks like, and like Honda, Hyundai does not really offer any trucks or off-road SUVs. Hyundai also, like Honda, has very little experience in hybrids. Honda's mild hybrid system barely counts as hybrid experience.

I think specifically the Kia brand could really affect Honda sales.

mmarshall

Why would you say that? How does Honda have more to lose, right now, than Toyota does? Granted, Toyota still does well-engineered, silky-smooth powertrains (when the throttles don't stick), low noise levels, and (arguably) the best mass-produced paint jobs in the industry, but they have dropped noticeably below Honda in a number of areas, particularly in interior hardware.


Kia, to some extent, is still riding in Hyundai's shadows. The brand has a better image (and MUCH better quality) than, say, 10 years ago, but still has not shown anywhere near the explosive growth in the American market that Hyundai recently has.

TRDFantasy

To restate the points I mentioned above, Hyundai in many ways has a similar lineup to Honda. They offer no trucks or off-road SUVs. As Acura has little brand value and recognition among luxury buyers, the Genesis competes more closely with Acura than say Lexus.

Hyundai seems to be focusing more on 4 cyl powertrains, and seems to be moving away from big engines. This is similar to Honda's perspective.

Also to add, Hyundai seems to be introducing more polarizing styling into their new models, similar to how the styling on current Honda models is quite polarizing.

Hyundai seems to be trying to do more with less, in terms of features and choices, which again is similar to Honda's philosophy.

Hyundai, like Honda, has no real expertise or leadership in hybrids.

Toyota is a clear leader in hybrid technology, and that sets Toyota apart from Hyundai and Honda, along with offering much more of a full vehicle lineup (trucks, off-road SUVs, the Lexus brand).

Hyundai is positioning Kia as a sporty brand. It can clearly be seen with the new styling theme on new Kia models.

The Kia Forte for example looks a lot like a Honda Civic, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Forte was stealing some Civic sales.

mmarshall

Indirectly, they do. The Kia Borrego is a rugged, truck-based SUV that is off-road capable. I reviewed one and was quite impressed with its construction. Hyundai/Kia, however, IS lagging in the pickup market, as you note.


Almost apples and oranges, though, with the Genesis and Acura. The Genesis is RWD.....virtually all Acura products are FWD or AWD.

Well, the clock is ticking on those new CAFE standards......they'll be here before you know it.

No arguments there, especally with the Sonata. I'll take the former Sonata styling over the new one any day, especially for the rear seat.

Hyundai traditionally GIVES you more for less, though the price differential with its competitors seems to be shrinking as Hyundai improves in both matrial and asembly quality.

Again, yes and no. Honda has plenty of experience with "mild" series-hybrids...they introduced the original Insight, in the U.S. market, 8 months before the Prius came out in 2000. But, there is no question that Honda lagged Toyota for years in the introduction of more-advanced, "parallel" hybrids that could run on electric power alone.

Agreed....in general, Toyota does rule the parallel-hybrid world, with the possible exception of the upcoming Chevy Volt. And the parallel-hybrid Ford Fusion is also a superb competitor.

Hyundai, though, now offers a pretty full lineup.....with the Equus luxury model on the way.

TRDFantasy

While it is true that the Genesis and Equus are more luxury than any Acura, I think it's relevant to compare to Acura since many people simply think of Acura as a "Honda Plus" brand, and that the Genesis and Equus are under the Hyundai brand. Despite them being RWD, and no Acura models being RWD, I'm willing to bet you would get a similar experience at an Acura dealership compared to a Hyundai dealership. I don't think there would be a big difference really in terms of dealer experience and customer service.

Yes the Kia Borrego is a body-on-frame SUV, but apart from that, Hyundai does not really offer anything else. Some previous-generation Hyundai and Kia models that were body-on-frame have now gone to a unibody design.

IMHO I don't consider mild hybrid experience or expertise as actual hybrid experience really. Even the name of Honda's system hints at that; Integrated Motor Assist. Not a full hybrid system, but merely "motor assist". In reality, Honda's hybrid system is nothing more than a glorified start-stop system, which is why I don't consider Honda's system as an actual hybrid system.

The whole thing about the new CAFE standards is overblown. As it stands, only a minority of cars are sold with V6 engines anyways. Also some Americans will not be willing to give up the comfort or refinement of a V6.

CAFE standards have risen before, and automakers were able to deal with it back then. I'm sure that some of the major automakers will still be offering big engines even with the new CAFE standards by using state-of-the-art technology.

Also considering the CAFE standards are a weighted-mean calculation, all an automaker really has to do is to sell more diesels, more hybrids, or more fuel-efficient small cars to increase their CAFE average.

With trucks for example, an automaker could offer a hybrid small truck which would greatly boost their CAFE average for trucks, yet continue selling their big trucks with big engines.

Getting back on-topic, Hyundai even with the Kia brand still doesn't quite offer a full lineup. Fact is Hyundai needs a true luxury brand, trucks, hybrids, and some serious off-road SUVs to be considered as offering a full lineup. Unless we see some proof from Hyundai that they are heading in that direction, Hyundai will continue to be quite comparable to Honda in terms of lineup.

Hyundai canned the Entourage, and only the rebadged Kia Sedona remains. I wouldn't be surprised if the Kia Sedona is canned too, resulting in Hyundai not having a minivan in their lineup.