War on Toyota
#46
Kids 12 and below are safer in the back, what about older ones?
Just found this:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/lex...es350-airbags/
FWIW, I googled "lexus airbag weight threshold"
#47
Lexus Fanatic
#48
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Government conspiracy? I highly doubt it. This is media driven, pure and simple. Like 1Sick, I'm very reluctant to believe there are throttle issues at all. (Above and beyond the floor mat problem) This has been investigated again and again over the last ten years by Lexus and the NHTSA. There have been hundreds (just like all manufacturers) of investigations into sticking throttles in Toyota vehicles. To this day, there has not been a single problem found with a sticking gas pedal on any Toyota or Lexus model. (other than the floor mat issue) I often wonder what the He** Toyota is fixing if there's no problem found. I think the conspiracy is on Toyota's part to come up with a bogus fix just to satisfy the NHTSA, and, more importantly, the media. All this, of course, is just my opinion.
#49
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...06/464779.html
There is a degree of 'positive backlash' going on against the media over-reaction to this, turning a legitimate but limited safety issue into 'cars gone wild'.
Toyota Situation Provides Great Opportunity for America to Examine the Frivolous Lawsuit Epidemic
By Marc J. Rauch
Exec. Vice President/Co-Publisher
Autochannel
AUTO CENTRAL - February 6, 2010: There was a time in America, when people would try to make something out of themselves via hard work, ingenuity, and a little luck; sometimes a lot of luck. But along with the proliferation of TV sound-bites replacing well thought out and articulated statements, and the beatification of untalented celebrity nitwits, more and more we are getting overrun by bloodsucking leeches who think they're entitled to endless welfare or obscene frivolous lawsuit settlements.
Sometimes lawsuits are necessary; sometimes the awards are very justified, particularly when a verdict comes after a long protracted struggle to get a person, corporation or government agency to own up to some really nasty wrongdoing - and there has been plenty of that.
But this era of ambulance-chasing TV pitchmen looking for victims has really gotten out of control… Talk about unintended sudden acceleration.
In the Toyota situation, at least so far, we’re looking at something that’s totally despicable in my opinion. There has been no proof that the Toyota vehicles have been suddenly and dangerously accelerating out-of-control, and there has been no stonewalling of action taken by Toyota to mitigate the effects of the firestorm. If anything, by humbling themselves in a show of hari-kari level contriteness, Toyota has laid themselves open for attack from what seems like every hyena on the planet. And attack they have.
When you consider how some companies have capitulated in the past to groundless consumer class-action lawsuits, the sea of shysters might do to Toyota what “American” carmakers could never do; chase the company and its products from our country. Considering how good the Toyota products are, this would be a crime. If new Buicks, for example, are to win back consumer market share, it would be great if they do it because they have a better product and value proposition, not because their toughest competition has abdicated the throne; this will serve no one’s best interests.
Back to my initial premise: Shouldn’t lawyers have to wait on filing class-action claims until something has been proven defective? I mean, we don’t even have a scammed-up video from CBS or NBC yet that purportedly shows how Toyota vehicles suddenly bust out in unrestrained stampede. And shouldn’t the ABC newsreader that has taken to calling Toyotas “runaway cars” be slapped for jumping the gun? How is it that he would have to call the Ft. Hood murderer the “alleged shooter,” but he can render an immediate verdict on Toyota without any supportive evidence?
In case everyone has forgotten, vehicular accidents and fatalities happen all the time. The majority of accidents are caused by operator error, not equipment malfunction. Did we suddenly forget how many people don’t know how to drive properly; how stupid some drivers are; how often drivers hit walls and other cars in parking lots and garages? Do we suddenly not recall that we all know someone who has said, “I dunno, it just got away from me.”
Just this morning, at breakfast, I said to my wife, “If a car accelerates out of control simply move the gear shift to neutral. End of story.” I then had to laugh when about two hours later I watched a news interview with our old friend Bobby Likis (car expert and radio talk show host) who illustrated this procedure exactly: You move the gear shift to neutral, apply the brakes or let the vehicle come to a safe stop, and then turn off the ignition. It’s an easy, simple, virtually foolproof solution; although I have to admit, that like the bromide, “Just when I thought I got out in front of the rat race, the rats got faster,” there’s seems to be no way to inoculate against what a determined fool can do.
On Thursday, after a few days of public statements by Toyota executives about how and what they’re doing to insure that unintended sudden acceleration does not occur, I called my press-relations contact at Toyota and asked how many, and which, journalists have called to complain about any of the Toyota press cars (Lexus, Toyota, Scion) experiencing unintended sudden acceleration. He said, “None.” I asked if he heard of any other Toyota press-relations officers receiving journalist complaints about this problem, and he said, “No.” Yes, I know this is merely anecdotal evidence, and the fact that I have never experienced unintended sudden acceleration in any Toyota product that I’ve test-driven may be just a matter of luck. But then, isn’t it just anecdotal evidence when we hear how some guy’s car suddenly, without intention, accelerated to 100 MPH? Why is that anecdotal evidence good enough to permit the frenzy of class-action lawsuits?
What has confused me is the often quoted story about how California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, his wife, young daughter and brother-in-law died in a horrific crash when their Lexus 350 ES suddenly accelerated into a “T” intersection, smashed into a Ford Explorer, then an embankment, and then went airborne before coming to a burning stop in a riverbed. Without question, this is a tragic story.
We know the details because Saylor’s brother-in-law made a 911 call to describe what was happening. The reason I’m confused is because the 911 call was made before the crash, not after as he lay dying. If there was time to make such a call and comment on the panic-charged atmosphere in the vehicle, why didn’t the driver, a CHP cop, just shift the car into neutral? It wasn’t just a bang-bang incident (pardon the hideous pun) that happened too fast to react. There should have been time to take counter-measures. If you doubt this, try making a 911 call and see how long it takes to actually get to the point where you can speak to somebody. So there was the time for Saylor to communicate to his brother-in-law that there was a problem; for the BIL to find and/or take out and possibly turn on the cell phone, dial, and then wait for the call to be answered. You would hope that an experienced policeman would not become so completely rattled that he couldn’t think clearly and quickly enough to disengage the drive-train by simply shifting into neutral.
The latest details of the Saylor incident are set forth in the180-page “Toyota Sudden Unintended Acceleration” report issued yesterday, February 5, 2010, by Safety Research & Strategies, Inc. The report, which is available online, acknowledges that NHTSA investigations have never identified a cause of any unintended sudden acceleration claims, and the authors of the report itself make no definitive conclusion as to the cause of unintended sudden acceleration, but it seems to avoid any serious discussion about the likelihood of operator error. One possible reason for this omitted explanation is that there’s no pot-of-gold at the end of an operator-error explanation rainbow, for either the ambulance chasers or for Safety Research & Strategies, Inc., should they be called upon to testify as safety experts on behalf of any plaintiffs.
So again, I’ll return to my initial premise: That the obscenely premature lawsuits against Toyota provide a great opportunity for our legislative bodies to examine the frivolous lawsuit epidemic that has infected America. If I wasn’t such a cynical person, I’d even suggest that some beneficial legislation could result from this examination.
By Marc J. Rauch
Exec. Vice President/Co-Publisher
Autochannel
AUTO CENTRAL - February 6, 2010: There was a time in America, when people would try to make something out of themselves via hard work, ingenuity, and a little luck; sometimes a lot of luck. But along with the proliferation of TV sound-bites replacing well thought out and articulated statements, and the beatification of untalented celebrity nitwits, more and more we are getting overrun by bloodsucking leeches who think they're entitled to endless welfare or obscene frivolous lawsuit settlements.
Sometimes lawsuits are necessary; sometimes the awards are very justified, particularly when a verdict comes after a long protracted struggle to get a person, corporation or government agency to own up to some really nasty wrongdoing - and there has been plenty of that.
But this era of ambulance-chasing TV pitchmen looking for victims has really gotten out of control… Talk about unintended sudden acceleration.
In the Toyota situation, at least so far, we’re looking at something that’s totally despicable in my opinion. There has been no proof that the Toyota vehicles have been suddenly and dangerously accelerating out-of-control, and there has been no stonewalling of action taken by Toyota to mitigate the effects of the firestorm. If anything, by humbling themselves in a show of hari-kari level contriteness, Toyota has laid themselves open for attack from what seems like every hyena on the planet. And attack they have.
When you consider how some companies have capitulated in the past to groundless consumer class-action lawsuits, the sea of shysters might do to Toyota what “American” carmakers could never do; chase the company and its products from our country. Considering how good the Toyota products are, this would be a crime. If new Buicks, for example, are to win back consumer market share, it would be great if they do it because they have a better product and value proposition, not because their toughest competition has abdicated the throne; this will serve no one’s best interests.
Back to my initial premise: Shouldn’t lawyers have to wait on filing class-action claims until something has been proven defective? I mean, we don’t even have a scammed-up video from CBS or NBC yet that purportedly shows how Toyota vehicles suddenly bust out in unrestrained stampede. And shouldn’t the ABC newsreader that has taken to calling Toyotas “runaway cars” be slapped for jumping the gun? How is it that he would have to call the Ft. Hood murderer the “alleged shooter,” but he can render an immediate verdict on Toyota without any supportive evidence?
In case everyone has forgotten, vehicular accidents and fatalities happen all the time. The majority of accidents are caused by operator error, not equipment malfunction. Did we suddenly forget how many people don’t know how to drive properly; how stupid some drivers are; how often drivers hit walls and other cars in parking lots and garages? Do we suddenly not recall that we all know someone who has said, “I dunno, it just got away from me.”
Just this morning, at breakfast, I said to my wife, “If a car accelerates out of control simply move the gear shift to neutral. End of story.” I then had to laugh when about two hours later I watched a news interview with our old friend Bobby Likis (car expert and radio talk show host) who illustrated this procedure exactly: You move the gear shift to neutral, apply the brakes or let the vehicle come to a safe stop, and then turn off the ignition. It’s an easy, simple, virtually foolproof solution; although I have to admit, that like the bromide, “Just when I thought I got out in front of the rat race, the rats got faster,” there’s seems to be no way to inoculate against what a determined fool can do.
On Thursday, after a few days of public statements by Toyota executives about how and what they’re doing to insure that unintended sudden acceleration does not occur, I called my press-relations contact at Toyota and asked how many, and which, journalists have called to complain about any of the Toyota press cars (Lexus, Toyota, Scion) experiencing unintended sudden acceleration. He said, “None.” I asked if he heard of any other Toyota press-relations officers receiving journalist complaints about this problem, and he said, “No.” Yes, I know this is merely anecdotal evidence, and the fact that I have never experienced unintended sudden acceleration in any Toyota product that I’ve test-driven may be just a matter of luck. But then, isn’t it just anecdotal evidence when we hear how some guy’s car suddenly, without intention, accelerated to 100 MPH? Why is that anecdotal evidence good enough to permit the frenzy of class-action lawsuits?
What has confused me is the often quoted story about how California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, his wife, young daughter and brother-in-law died in a horrific crash when their Lexus 350 ES suddenly accelerated into a “T” intersection, smashed into a Ford Explorer, then an embankment, and then went airborne before coming to a burning stop in a riverbed. Without question, this is a tragic story.
We know the details because Saylor’s brother-in-law made a 911 call to describe what was happening. The reason I’m confused is because the 911 call was made before the crash, not after as he lay dying. If there was time to make such a call and comment on the panic-charged atmosphere in the vehicle, why didn’t the driver, a CHP cop, just shift the car into neutral? It wasn’t just a bang-bang incident (pardon the hideous pun) that happened too fast to react. There should have been time to take counter-measures. If you doubt this, try making a 911 call and see how long it takes to actually get to the point where you can speak to somebody. So there was the time for Saylor to communicate to his brother-in-law that there was a problem; for the BIL to find and/or take out and possibly turn on the cell phone, dial, and then wait for the call to be answered. You would hope that an experienced policeman would not become so completely rattled that he couldn’t think clearly and quickly enough to disengage the drive-train by simply shifting into neutral.
The latest details of the Saylor incident are set forth in the180-page “Toyota Sudden Unintended Acceleration” report issued yesterday, February 5, 2010, by Safety Research & Strategies, Inc. The report, which is available online, acknowledges that NHTSA investigations have never identified a cause of any unintended sudden acceleration claims, and the authors of the report itself make no definitive conclusion as to the cause of unintended sudden acceleration, but it seems to avoid any serious discussion about the likelihood of operator error. One possible reason for this omitted explanation is that there’s no pot-of-gold at the end of an operator-error explanation rainbow, for either the ambulance chasers or for Safety Research & Strategies, Inc., should they be called upon to testify as safety experts on behalf of any plaintiffs.
So again, I’ll return to my initial premise: That the obscenely premature lawsuits against Toyota provide a great opportunity for our legislative bodies to examine the frivolous lawsuit epidemic that has infected America. If I wasn’t such a cynical person, I’d even suggest that some beneficial legislation could result from this examination.
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...06/464779.html
There is a degree of 'positive backlash' going on against the media over-reaction to this, turning a legitimate but limited safety issue into 'cars gone wild'.
There is a degree of 'positive backlash' going on against the media over-reaction to this, turning a legitimate but limited safety issue into 'cars gone wild'.
#51
Lexus Fanatic
I have to say I think the negative effect of all of this is probably not going to fade as quickly as I initially thought. I just a segment on the news asking if we need to add other models to the recall list. They showed some accident scenes and they were bad. Some cars caught fire after the collision. I dont know what Toyota is going to have to do to get these guys to stop the attacks and end all of the hyped media coverage
#53
Pole Position
?? Conspiracy and involvement are two different things. If it is a conspiracy, why did the the NHTSA clear Toyota in every single investigation? I highly doubt the government is conspiring to bring Toyota down. That's just ridiculous.
#54
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
Because the NHTSA investigations have been ongoing since 2003, before GM/Chrysler got in bed with govt. Now that we have an union/trial lawyer friendly administration that owns 60% of some of Toyota's biggest competitors, who knows what the heck is going to happen now.
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 02-07-10 at 07:12 AM.
#55
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Have to keep in mind as the vultures in the media have proven this over and over and over that once they latch onto something they will exploit the issue until so well past it's purpose that they lose their intended audience and the subject matter loses focus on the core concern. The media are scum and there is nicer way to put it. I have always said someone should step forward with a show similar to TMZ that ONLY discussed media employees and their personal lives. Remember Tiger Woods? I put off watching any news for over 2 weeks due to the onslaught of garbage in the news about this. I care less about who Tiger Woods goes to bed with. Leave that up to his wife.
I have never seen a vulture turn into a butterfly so this will drag out for a while yet for Toyota.
I have never seen a vulture turn into a butterfly so this will drag out for a while yet for Toyota.
#56
#57
Super Moderator
iTrader: (1)
The news reports on Toyota will stop when a new story come up. It really is that simple. Anyone that knows the news business knows this. Toyota is today's story and will be the story until tomorrows story if found. It's the same with any story ever reported. It's not a witch hunt like some think it is. There is no such thing as good news in the news business. If it is not bad news it is not news at all. This is how is has been for decades. Don't blame the media as they just report what the majority of society wants them to report.
Also, sudden acceleration and stuck gas pedals no matter how rare it may be to the majority of car owners is not minor. I personally think it is a major problem because I don't want to be the rare person that experiences it. If you can guarantee me that the problem will NOT happen to any of my families cars and only happen to your cars than I'd say its a minor issue and wont give it a second thought. I mean seriously, isn't that the way everyone is thinking about it right now? It doesn't or wont happen to me so who cares. If it does happen to you or any family member will it then be a big deal?
Also, sudden acceleration and stuck gas pedals no matter how rare it may be to the majority of car owners is not minor. I personally think it is a major problem because I don't want to be the rare person that experiences it. If you can guarantee me that the problem will NOT happen to any of my families cars and only happen to your cars than I'd say its a minor issue and wont give it a second thought. I mean seriously, isn't that the way everyone is thinking about it right now? It doesn't or wont happen to me so who cares. If it does happen to you or any family member will it then be a big deal?
#58
Super Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Personally, I think what made this a major news story is Toyota and everyone and their mother were dismissing these accidents as a floor mat issue and nothing else. Suddenly more reports come in with accidents where no floor mats were in the car, then Toyota suddenly announces a possible faulty gas pedal assembly. To tell you the truth I'd raise hell to Toyota too since they were adamant it was simply a floor mat issue and nothing more.
All said, I would still not hesitate to buy a Toyota if it is the car I wanted. We just got a new 2010 Toyota for my dad, I still want to buy either a Camry Hybrid or Venza for my mom. I don't care about problems, I just care about if there is a fix or not.
#59
Lexus Champion
Also, sudden acceleration and stuck gas pedals no matter how rare it may be to the majority of car owners is not minor. I personally think it is a major problem because I don't want to be the rare person that experiences it. If you can guarantee me that the problem will NOT happen to any of my families cars and only happen to your cars than I'd say its a minor issue and wont give it a second thought. I mean seriously, isn't that the way everyone is thinking about it right now? It doesn't or wont happen to me so who cares. If it does happen to you or any family member will it then be a big deal?
#60
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Los Angeles/Vancouver
Posts: 6,231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if i was Toyoda, i would run that commercial 24/7 on all major networks for at least a month