shyguy16

damn, how do you know so much?

joe80

I agree with a new name. but every friggin alphabet is probably taken.


i would say stick with Q for sedan and change the name on SUV. Qx56 and Q56 would be too similar.

(Cj)

Well Lexus has the LS and LX so they wouldn't have to change the name for the sake of confusion

LexFather

Infiniti just scored in the near bottom of customer perception. They sell based on lower MSRP and lease rates. Contrary to popular belief they are not all driven by people that go to the track. They are driven by older people as well who want a great deal on a great vehicle.

We do not know the percentage of their most expensive model the M45 in regards to sales. We do know the G37 is 60% of their volume and the Q45 failed for 16 or so years.

Hey its not me. The facts are people bypass this brand as the asking price increases. Unless the new Q56 or whatever is another FM based car that requires minimal investment/economies of scale make it profitable, there is no market for it. Again, Audi can't sell an A8, Jaguar struggles with the XJ and the Phateon was flop. From what we see, the D-flagship category is dominated by the S-class/LS/7 series.

I say this over and over, just building a great car is NOT the only answer. As the price goes up, building a GREAT BRAND means more.



I sense sarcasm since you seem to have some personal issue with me. In particular regards to the Q45 I have been accurate over the years.
A basic rule Infintii hasn't figured out, not to mention the worst letter and numbers in the alphabet.

This is not a diss to the brand, I admire how far they have come. However there is nothing to suggest people want a new Q.

joe80

i think you build a great brand by making a great car. if infiniti can build a Q that is worthy to be called a true luxury flagship then it will only help the brand IMO regardless of the sales. no one buys A8, but audi gets enough respect. and Flagship is a must for a luxury company.

If I was infiniti, I would start developing and surprise the world by 2012 or so. who knows it will shake the car industry?

Och

iTrader: (3)

Infiniti needs to stay profitable before they venture back into tier 1 territory. Their current flagship, M35/45 isn't selling all that well, and they offer insanely low lease deals.

Before they start thinking about the next Q, they need to make the next M sell almost as well as 5 series/E class.

mmarshall

Still an interesting question, Mike. The M doesn't really seem to be fulfilling the flagship category. More people seem to actually be buying the G series because it is less expensive then the M, but with pretty much the same styling, and more or less the same interior (though the M has a little more wood). With a Q, they would (probably) be getting something substantially different.

Like I asked, though, in an earlier post, what would you suggest as an Infiniti flagship if you don't think another Q would cut it?

It's also interesting, at least to me, that you criticize the Acura RL, which is more or less the same exterior size as the M35/45, as being too small, yet you don't feel that Infiniti needs to do a larger flagship. Both cars, of course, offer AWD....the Acura standard and the M optional. The M45 of course, has a V8 and a choice of RWD/AWD...the RL doesn't.

Maybe both Infiniti and Acura are both looking to the future, though, and the upcoming CAFE standards. Although these standards, of course, are only a fleet-wide average, the more large cars with conventional gas V8 engines, the more difficult meeting the standards it potentially becomes.

LexFather

Mike, I deleted my long winded response. The facts are I've been accurate about their decisions here and the public has spoken with sales.

I will say what I WOULD like to see is more manuals in Infiniti's to truly make them sporty (FX, M37/56, EX, etc) and a GT-R rebadge would have been fabulous.

As for the RL, it can't even compete in its own class, we have seen 3 GENERATIONS of the M to this same generation of the RL. Infiniti seems very interested in improving their vehicle, Acura has their head in the sand.

In regards to MPG I disagree as Acuras have pretty dismal MPG considering they don't offer V-8s and both are following Lexus with them having future hybrids coming.

Cheers and stay warm lol

Fizzboy7

I think you hit the nail on the head. Infiniti, as a brand, is hard to define and not the luxury mark it originally set out to be. I think people think more "sport" or "performance" rather than luxury when it comes to Infiniti. And when you add a $70k full-size sedan, it's emphasis is going to be on luxury, not sport (as most it's competitors are). People would not be looking for luxury from Infiniti and such an expensive car would linger on lots. I see them sticking to their smaller sporty models, which they do very well.

(Cj)

Yup, and this is exactly why introducing a flagship Essence Coupe is more in line with the brands cache then a big bloated flagship sedan.

tex2670

Someone I work with was considering a BMW 535 and a Lexus GS350 AWD 2 years ago. He had driven Lexus for years, then was in an Audi A6, which he enjoyed driving, but not as to reliability. I suggested he look at the M35 AWD (sportiness of an A6, but reliability more equal to a Lexus)--he just kept talking as if I didn't say anything--he wouldn't even consider it.

Yes--just one example, but I think there is much truth to what 1Sick Says.

speedflex

Infiniti's brand strategy has been a near disaster from day one. Pity because the company has made and continues to make great cars. The original Q was a very daring and bold statement and the company sabotaged it's own product with a nebulous and inaccessible zen-like promotion. It didn't match the car and worse, it didn't even let us see the damn thing. Infiniti has learned some lessons, hard ones, over the years but they still haven't figured out how to clearly communicate who they are.

I think they are obligated to try again for a top line flagship car. What form it takes is really the critical question. I would love a performance luxury sedan that DOESN'T look like a 7 or an LS or an S Class. If there's anyone one of these companies who needs to be bold in this segment it's Infiniti since they have to make a splash just to get people to notice.

mmarshall

You don't have to delete your responses with me. I'm always interested in hearing what you have to say, even in the relatively few cases where I disagree with it.


I'm sure you remember.....for the GT-R/Skyline, Nissan officials wrestled back and forth between the Nissan and Infiniti badge for some time before the company finally decided on Nissan. Ghosn (probably) ? made the choice himself, though there is no proof of that.


Granted, the M outsells all 3 generations of the Q45, but one of the M's biggest problems is the G itself, because the G is almost the same car for substantially less money. That's part of the problem......Infiniti doesn't have a REAL flagship, so the one they tempoarily have now plays second-fiddle to the car right below it.



As for V8s and the coming CAFE standards, my guess (and, I emphasize, it is a guess, not necessarily fact) is that it is likely that most of the V8s will end up being hybrids or diesels. Lexus, of course, as you point out, already has a head start on that....and, of course, you have already voted with your own pocket on that with your GS. I think Infiniti will follow, too....even if you are correct and we don't see another Q flagship. The RL may need to go to a hybrid or diesel, even with the V6........the full-time AWD, of course, impacts fuel mileage....as do the AWD options on the existing Infiniti/Lexus series.


Thanks.....the immediate multi-blizzard crisis around here is lessening up around here. Unlike states like OH, MI, WI, NY, IN, etc..... this area is just not used to....and not prepared for......huge snowfall totals. I and my neighbors got through both huge storms (Thank You, Lord ) without a power failure or roof collapse, as a number of others in the area suffered. Our condo-townhouse development, for a number of reasons, can't practically install emergency generators (and we have electric heat).

My Outback has just been unbelievable in these conditions, though, of course, as a non-essential driver, I stayed off the roads until the storm was over, as requested by local officials. It is filthy, though, and I haven't been able to clean it. Hope to next week....or maybe tomorrow, but it will just get filthy again.

I8ABMR

The Q45 disappeared a while back and I think for it to reemerge after al of this time will really be difficult. The engineers at Nissan will need to work over time. I do miss the crazy headlights and nice lines of the car

(Cj)

The M will be the true flagship since Infiniti is going to get a new FWD model to slot between the G and the M that compete with the TL and ES. The new M is huge and only a few inches short of the SWB LS, so I don't see why so many of you are saying the Q needs to come back. The M also cost nearly as much as an entry level LS.

As I see it the G is the entry level the future FWD car will be the mid level, and the M is the flagship.