amdave

Clearly, the whole point of my post went right over your head. I have nothing to prove - my statement was more to clarify that many Lexus owners could easily afford one of the Germans if they wished, but picked Lexus instead.

DustinV

I personally don't see it as an insult. They're giving consumers a choice. If I were in the market for a new E class I could care less if the seats were cloth, MB-Tex or real leather. It's not an issue to me and I seriously doubt the issue of real leather is an issue at all to many people shopping for a European luxury car. These brands have a certain appeal, one that ranges beyond what is found inside the cabin.

Besides, real leather in a Mercedes costs what? $ 1,500 extra? That's nothing to someone who is seriously considering a Mercedes in the first place. And if it is, then these people have the right to go to another brand where they can find themselves a better deal.

The bottom line is that MB-Tex works and many people seem to prefer it to real leather. That's the verdict. It works, it sells and it looks good. If someone wants a Mercedes and real leather, fork over $ 1,500. That's peanuts here when you're looking at the big picture.


I've personally never seen the allure of leather, even in luxury cars. We sit on it and we barely notice it once we are behind the wheel. And when it gets dirty we complain about the cleaning aspect. Leather? I don't need it, personally. That's the allure of MB-Tex. Ok, I think we've already established that.

mmarshall

The police officer and red-light-running comparison was meant to be a metaphor showing that just because something is done for 40 years, that doesn't necessarily make it correct...or a good idea. For example, you yourself said, in a post on another thread, that you didn't the like too-soft chassis/steering and sloppy handling of years ago, even though some carmakers (like Buick) persisted with that for decades. I used my comparison to address the fact that vinyl/M-B Tex interiors have been used, as the poster noted, for some 40 years, and I thought it was just as bad an idea back then as now. It's not the fact that the synthetic materials ARE (or were) offered that I thought was silly, but the fact that with cars costing what an M-B does, you have to pay extra for the real stuff. And, NOW, even when you DO get real leather, it is not smooth, plush leather, unless you go up to an AMG or S-Class model. Same with Audi and BMW.

The G Man

I pretty much disagree with everything you just said DustinV. MB's goal with MB-TEX is not giving consumers more choices, it is cost cutting without increasing the price. What if they give you a choice of plastic wood or rubber flooring, would that be a good thing too? Both of those items will wear better than real wood panles or carpets, so I guess MB is doing us a favor. Like I have already said, you cannot jsut add $1500 and buy a base E-class with leather, it is grouped in with some very expensive options.

DustinV

Did you miss my sentence where I said "except for their SUVs"? That clearly hints that their SUVs have a more family friendly image than their sedans.

And I think my personal perception about this issue is justified. My sister drives an IS. Aside from being sporty and well-equipped there's nothing really impressive about it. It's small and cramped. For a young couple with two small kids this might be ok but when those kids grow up it's time to move up to a GS - whoops, that thing also feels like a sardine can in the rear.

Get my gist? The A4/C and A6/E outclass the IS and GS in this regard with their bigger interior space (and thus the resulting better comfort I suppose). That's what "family friendliness" means to me.




You heard me.

I get the feeling there is a lot of HATING going on here. Where's the objectivity here? It's lacking in some regards.

The GLK is voted last place by two magazines. Everyone here applauds giving no real reason why. If this were the Lexus RX there would be some serious complaining going on. Double standards? Maybe.




Ah, I am being labeled as a "Euro fanboy" now. Interesting.

I've said often enough that I like and have an appreciation for all sorts of cars. I suppose you see me arguing and defending a lot of European cars on this board because of some of the nasty comments which seem to be flung at these cars for no other reason that hatred.



So what's the problem exactly?

Brand alternation happens all the time. You have many owners who like to try new cars or find something about another brand interesting and alluring. There are Lexus customers who tire of their Lexus and go for either another Lexus, a European, Japanese or American premium badge and vice versa (German car owners going for something else). It happens all the time.

I know you're going to throw in the "Lexus has the best retention and brand loyalty rates" at me but there will always be people going for any of these cars. Bottom line: there's always a market.

Many Lexus owners probably also have a car from another make in their garage: European or Japanese or even American (hell, throw in Korean there as well). Club Lexus is not a reliable representation of the many other thousand Lexus owners out there at the moment.

Oh, and you should know by now that your European cars are overpriced for a number reasons. One of those reasons is status: you pay for the badge and what it stands for. Believe it or not but to a lot of people that is important.

DustinV

What's the name of your inside man at MB who told you this?

Naturally, the goal of these companies is to make a profit. But at the same time they know their customers. Think about it. If the vast majority of MB customers are happy with MB-Tex, then what is the point of offering real leather? Real leather also costs money for the manufacturer, more than fake leather. It has to be grown (cows) and prepared and this process takes time and money.

Also, many Mercedes seem to be owned by large families with children and pets. There's automatically an advantage here for MB-Tex. If I were back in the US and someone actually gave me a Benz, hell, I'd sure as hell hope it has MB-Tex.

High-level MB models like the S class or AMGs cater to a different clientele altogether who probably expect real leather in the first place. The people shopping for an E or C class can in the peace of their heart and soul live with MB-Tex. Period.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Well, while the GS is smaller than E class in the back, the ES is very comparable.

As far as the IS vs the C, I think the C is even worse. Its has the most uncomfortable, violently cramped back seat with no space whatsoever. It may be bigger on paper, but the seating position makes it impossible for a tall adult to sit in the back seat if another tall adult is sitting on the front seat. In the IS its not as bad.



I dont think theres any hating. Its just that GLK is a useless cute ute with dreadful interior that is clearly not deserving of the MB badge. Its just a hateful car, like most cute useless utes, MB wannabe so to say, so no wonder people hate it.

I dont think you'll find much hate on this forum for MBs like SL55, CL600, etc. These are proper MBs.

And look at all the people bashing the dreadful HS250 before you bring up double standards.


From your posts you seem to dislike Lexus very much, and always argue how the Yuropean cars are oh so much better. While some of the Yuropean cars are often better than Lexus in certain aspects, there are many aspects where Lexus is clearly better.

Afterall this is CAR CHAT, and we are here to discuss and argue about cars, and of course most of us are a little bit biased, and all of us have our own tastes and preferences. But dont forget now, that this is a primarily US forum dedicated to Lexus.



Thats why so many people lease them instead of buying.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

I think this thread has gone as far as it can go.


To those who complain, thank you for your thoughts.

But enough is enough.

The G Man

Well, I am glad you like vinyl in your $60000 car. MB would be happy they have customers like you who is willing to accept cheaper material for the sake of the MB stock holders. The fact is that most MB constomers want leathers in their E-class, thats why most of the dealer ships have MB-TEX all over the lot and leather equiped e350 are harder to find.

DrDrilZ

8k off list is a joke. since there is 8K in factory trunk money, they are basically offering you the car at msrp! lol. btw, i got $21k off msrp on mine last month (e550). you should be getting similar deals.

IS-SV

I thought this redundant thread was closed already.