Lexus ES 240 to be built for Chinese markets only
07-05-09, 04:32 PM
#31
Lexus Test Driver
Typical world vision vs. tunnel vision example.
07-05-09, 05:29 PM
#32
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All I can say is to look at the press release by Rolls Royce and Ferrari and Lamborghini, and how they state the overall sales are not effected much by the global down turn as the growing market in Middle east and China covers the shrinking markets of the America and Europe. When I was in China the a few months before the Olympics there was an ungodly amount of Porsche and Ferrari's in Beijing and Canton, much like what you see in LA, and knowing how some cars price can be jacked up 100% due to tariffs, you know there are filthy rich folks there.
Its hard to convince you because all you ask for is links and numbers and news articles, I am Chinese and all my relatives are in China and the way it is in reality is always different than how the news portrays it you know that. I get my sources from my relatives who live there and not from the news, you don't have to believe me, but I am merely trying to offer an actual insider's point of view, as oppose to other speculators here comparing China's market to America's.
Like someone else said, the gap between rich and poor is mighty, as a matter of fact, to reduce car usage in the city, they started doing days where even number, or odd number license plates are allowed on the road. But that did not help because the majority who can afford cars in China, bought another car with another set of license plate to use on the alternate days.
And as far back as I remember, China's market always get saturated with low end cars, low end models, that sells for more than the higher end models in the USA. In fact, outside of China, I have never seen the Volkswagon Sontana (Passat here) but its basically the low end version with the smallest displacement engines, all made in China. Same with the Audi 100 - made in China, and the E class 200's etc.
Also to offer an possible explaination of you saying China's average income is so low. China's riches are concentrated in the Cities, and so are the rich people, and car sales. When my parent's went to China for business last month, they went to Shanghai and said it was amazing, better than any USA city. Then they went to a so called 3rd tier city (not by coastal areas, not touched by modern developement), and my parent said that place reminds them of Canto almost 30 years ago, full of bicycles, people in sandals and straw hats, dirty old buses with no AC etc.
Last but not least, to give you an insight, in China housing and car is expensive, much more so than USA. But a lot of government jobs, or large companies, provides company vehicles, and also packages where after x amount of years, the loaner apartment provided to you will be yours. Thus no mortgage, no car payments. In China, clothing, entertainment and food is ungodly cheap, you have no idea lol. 100 USD will get you a 5 people feast at some fancy Chinese restaurant
Its hard to convince you because all you ask for is links and numbers and news articles, I am Chinese and all my relatives are in China and the way it is in reality is always different than how the news portrays it you know that. I get my sources from my relatives who live there and not from the news, you don't have to believe me, but I am merely trying to offer an actual insider's point of view, as oppose to other speculators here comparing China's market to America's.
Like someone else said, the gap between rich and poor is mighty, as a matter of fact, to reduce car usage in the city, they started doing days where even number, or odd number license plates are allowed on the road. But that did not help because the majority who can afford cars in China, bought another car with another set of license plate to use on the alternate days.
And as far back as I remember, China's market always get saturated with low end cars, low end models, that sells for more than the higher end models in the USA. In fact, outside of China, I have never seen the Volkswagon Sontana (Passat here) but its basically the low end version with the smallest displacement engines, all made in China. Same with the Audi 100 - made in China, and the E class 200's etc.
Also to offer an possible explaination of you saying China's average income is so low. China's riches are concentrated in the Cities, and so are the rich people, and car sales. When my parent's went to China for business last month, they went to Shanghai and said it was amazing, better than any USA city. Then they went to a so called 3rd tier city (not by coastal areas, not touched by modern developement), and my parent said that place reminds them of Canto almost 30 years ago, full of bicycles, people in sandals and straw hats, dirty old buses with no AC etc.
Last but not least, to give you an insight, in China housing and car is expensive, much more so than USA. But a lot of government jobs, or large companies, provides company vehicles, and also packages where after x amount of years, the loaner apartment provided to you will be yours. Thus no mortgage, no car payments. In China, clothing, entertainment and food is ungodly cheap, you have no idea lol. 100 USD will get you a 5 people feast at some fancy Chinese restaurant
There are I believe 200 or more Chinese car companies. They will continue to merge/get bought until only a few strong ones survive, like what happened in America/Europe in the 1920s.
07-06-09, 04:48 AM
#33
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07-06-09, 06:11 PM
#34
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07-06-09, 08:02 PM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
I'm all for four-cylinder Lexus products, just as I liked the idea of the Infiniti G20 and Acura Integra. But not in the ES. The ES, IMO, is simply too large and heavy a platform for an engine that size. Yes, the Camry has a standard four-cylinder, but, in general, the ES weighs more.
Eastern China, in the big cities, and on level roads......maybe no problem. But, China has an enormous population, often with several people riding in one car, and, in the west and southwest, enormous mountain ranges. A four-cylinder ES, IMO, wouldn't cut it with several people in it or on steep grades. And, to make matters worse, the crappy fuel sold there would probably have the computer retarding the engine's spark to compensate, thus making the engine even weaker-performing and shortening its life with more heat.
Eastern China, in the big cities, and on level roads......maybe no problem. But, China has an enormous population, often with several people riding in one car, and, in the west and southwest, enormous mountain ranges. A four-cylinder ES, IMO, wouldn't cut it with several people in it or on steep grades. And, to make matters worse, the crappy fuel sold there would probably have the computer retarding the engine's spark to compensate, thus making the engine even weaker-performing and shortening its life with more heat.
07-06-09, 08:06 PM
#37
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I'm all for four-cylinder Lexus products, just as I liked the idea of the Infiniti G20 and Acura Integra. But not in the ES. The ES, IMO, is simply too large and heavy a platform for an engine that size. Yes, the Camry has a standard four-cylinder, but, in general, the ES weighs more.
07-07-09, 05:16 AM
#39
Lexus Champion
07-07-09, 07:02 AM
#40
I'm all for four-cylinder Lexus products, just as I liked the idea of the Infiniti G20 and Acura Integra. But not in the ES. The ES, IMO, is simply too large and heavy a platform for an engine that size. Yes, the Camry has a standard four-cylinder, but, in general, the ES weighs more.
Eastern China, in the big cities, and on level roads......maybe no problem. But, China has an enormous population, often with several people riding in one car, and, in the west and southwest, enormous mountain ranges. A four-cylinder ES, IMO, wouldn't cut it with several people in it or on steep grades. And, to make matters worse, the crappy fuel sold there would probably have the computer retarding the engine's spark to compensate, thus making the engine even weaker-performing and shortening its life with more heat.
Eastern China, in the big cities, and on level roads......maybe no problem. But, China has an enormous population, often with several people riding in one car, and, in the west and southwest, enormous mountain ranges. A four-cylinder ES, IMO, wouldn't cut it with several people in it or on steep grades. And, to make matters worse, the crappy fuel sold there would probably have the computer retarding the engine's spark to compensate, thus making the engine even weaker-performing and shortening its life with more heat.
People in China aren't spoiled by large engines like USA, people generally don't care about 0-60 times, most of the times in the cities its too jammed up to go anywhere fast, and in the rural areas people dont drive other than truckers. I remember mountain roads back in the days had run off at the shoulders with sand barriers on the side for the folks with over heated brakes to crash into, and then complete with water fountain to cool off the brakes haha.Cars are like status symbols, most people just want one, and if they can get a brand name one then more power to them. Only the real rich can afford high power cars and with no roads to use them. And unlike the USA, inter-province highway are not as popular and often unsafe, even the highway linking HongKong to Canton have had a few movie stars kidnapped. Breaking down by the side of a rural highway in your Mercedes will be your worst nightmare
Also another strange thing about China I dont understand is that car's life is very short. Usually in the cities, cars after 20-40k kilo, they are near the end of their life and is unusually beat up (probably due to nonstop stop and go every single day and excessive idling). But then Taxis gets replaced every 400k miles, and they can hit 400k kilo in 3 years
07-07-09, 07:27 AM
#42
Not sure I remember, gotta ask my parents when I get off work lol. But its very popular for HongKong people to go to ShenZhen via the highway to play golf and a few of them were napped for ransom then let go a few years back, less now but still not considered as safe as interstate traveling here. I was surprised they were bold enough to kidnap famous people too :/
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10-21-14 07:51 AM
2010, 240, 335i, bmw, ceralbowl, difference, es, es240, income, lexus, lexuses240, median, price, targetcomred, usa
