Wow, very insightful.

 

You are soooooo right ....
I drove 01 BMW 740i Sport for for 4 years and spent 11 K on repair ... it was great car to drive but very unreliable.
That is why I bought my 06 LS 430, driving is not the same but trouble free.

IL

 

I have clearly explained to the Missus... if you want a Benz, YOU will the one sitting in the shop getting it fixed, NOT me...

 

Lexus have already been a company that sits back and let someone else be the guinea pig first when it comes to technology. That’s is how they built reliable cars.
The Germans auto industry have the biggest gain in reliability the last 3 years according to JC power. Of course Lexus being #1 have no place to go but down, they did drop to # 2 this year. There is no question that the Japanese built better electronics, but mechanically, they are about the same and the German cars are much more fun to drive..

 

The LAs 460/600 has like 12 world firsts? HOw is that being a guinea pig? Lexus does watch what others do and perfect it but they also lead. Hybrids from Lexus are a first from a luxury marque and the most technological cars on the planet. Now benz/BMW, etc will have them. So that makes them guinea pigs too.

The fact is Germans pride themselves in the driving experience and the Japanese with Lexus pride themselves in the quality of the car. Lexus is from Toyota and Toyota has always been a top quality brand. Lexus took it to levels we never saw with processes we never saw back in 1989.

They built the LS 400 which debuted worlds first as well. German cars still had black bumpers when Lexus had a completely intergrated bumper like on th SC 300/400.

You are also forgetting that Lexus lead with sound systems (Nakimichi anyone) and aerodynamics on luxury cars. The Ls had what a CD of .29 or something. The 7 series of the time was a .37.

Lexus maybe conservative but lets also acknowledge when they do lead with technology and the Germans follow.

Both the Germans and Lexus bring so much to the table, we are fortunate to drive these great machines.

 

1SICKLEX, this reminds me of the Hyundai thread earlier. What is consider a technological innovation? Intergrated bumper, a good sound system or low coefficent of drag are not what I would consider techonological break thrus. As far as Luxury hybrids, Lexus simply introduce their hybrid technology into another segment of their company, hardly a big deal. The 1st hybrid car made in a factory was by Audi not, Toyota. The VVt-i is a modified version of Honda's VTEC technology. The list goes on and on, direct injection, air bags, active head rest, HID lights, ABS, turbo or super charged stability systems or fuel injection.
I have to give Lexus credit for taking a existing technology and making it better and more reliable, thats is one thing they are really good at. I give credit when credit is due

 

Do you know how hard it is to produce a hybrid? If it was so easy, don't you think everyone would be doing it? You sound like FKL, now telling us Audi made the first hybrid? Well even if they did they sure as hell haven't figured out how to apply the technology. Lexus hybrids show Lexus as a leader in technology. Its a huge risk, they are worlds first and the most techological cars around.

Let me say that again. The most technologically advanced cars in the world are Lexus hybrids. Every magazine states this. They are not for everyone, I am not talking about how they drive etc. From a technology only standpoint, nothing compares as they are tremendously complex.

The GS 450h was a worlds first, RWD hybrid. The CVT is a worlds first being able to drive the car either on electric or engine power. Reviews marveled at it. There isn't another competitor yet and it has been 4 years. I don't see how we can even begin to not acknowledge that Lexus leads as well just based on their hybrids.

You don't think aerodynamics are a breakthrough? Maybe you don't know how much engineering goes and how much of a big deal it is dropping your Cd from .30 to .29 but its a HUGE deal. Lexus engineers knew a low Cd affects quiet and economy. Thus they try so hard to make them aerodynamic. The LS 430 had a Cd amazingly of .25 with the air suspension. No other luxury car at the time was close outside of another Lexus. That is as low as a Prius.

If soundsystems were not so important then why did eveyone else jump on the bandwagon? It is b/c it is a breakthrough. Now car interiors are designed with the speaker companies involvement. Now Audi offers a B&O soundsystem. They didn't before.

Lexus offered the first LED lights in a car. Lexus had double hinged doors in the SC so the long door would open out not just wide. The Benz CL took that. The electroluminicsent lights in damn near every luxury car now, came from Lexus.

The first 8 speed auto is from Lexus. Now BMW will have one.

I don't understand how people just want to omit and forget and act like Lexus does not lead/has not lead in technology. I am not saying they are the leader but what I am saying is they have lead and do lead sometimes. They don't just sit back and copy over and over as some people would have us to believe. On the flipside, they will tell us a CLS or X6 "4 door coupe" things (when they are sedans and a SUV) are breakthroughs. Work in marketing?

 

Patmall, no need to prove to anyone
I'm a benz owner myself so we all know about the horrid reliability issues for the 00-04/05. 05/06 have gotten alot better.

MB has improved for their >07, which is good news.

 

applaud this man

 

2001 S55, now that has to be one of the most expensive cars to maintain/repair.

 

Yes, good point. I'm comparing my 2008 C-class to the 2001 C-class and the quality/reliability is like night and day.

 

In last 4 years, I have spent $400 (& some change) on repairs on my GS, upper control arm.
That's beyond impressive in terms of reliability.

 

1SICKLEX, we can debate all day long long and we are not going to agree I can see your position on Lexus Hybrid since you just bought one, but look it up yourself, Audi produced its first iteration of the Audi Duo hybrid in 1989 and the hybrid system and regenerative braking system was invented much earlier than that. Again Toyota just took a existing technology and made it better.
The CVT in the GS is another good example, all Lexus did was took the CVT technology and modify it and apply it in a different way. The 1st CVT in a production car was in a Volvo 340 produce in the 1960s.
Aerodynamics is a break thru, but its carries no risk of reliability.
LED headlights were develop by Lexus and Audi at the same time, Lexus just beat Audi to the market with it a year earlier.
Gears in a car is like gears in my bicycle, I have 27 in my new bike and I use about 5. A good 6 speed is enough for most application. There is such a thing as too much shifting.
I agree with you that Lexus do lead, they lead the industry in relaibility. If Lexus always have the lastest and greatest toys in their car, I bet they will not have the reliability rating they have today. That is actually one of teh reason I buy Lexus, I value reliability and I did not have a need to be the 1st to have the latest toys and technologies, I rather wait until the technology becomes reliable.

 

This has nothing to do with me buying one. If I owned a go-cart, if I rode a goat, if I owned a Ferrari F430 Scuderia, the fact is Lexus has worlds firsts and the most technologically advanced cars SOLD to actual CONSUMERS in their hybrids. If Audi created it, fine, they DO NOT produce it, they do not make it. Clearly their patent doesn't apply if they have one. So clap all you want for them creating it, they seemingly can't produce one for people to actually buy.

FYI, the 8 speed Lexus auto has less parts and weighs less than the 6 speed. That is moving forward. More gears allows you to get better

You are right, we shall agree to disagree and I don't want to hi-jack patmall's thread anymore.

Sorry patmall

 

There is a difference between inventing something compare to modifing something or mass producing an existing technology. Enough said, we all love our Lexus, thats why we are here, rather we think Lexus is a leader in technological break thru or Lexus is a Leader in making existing more reliable.