I really doubt a manual trans for a 4GS will be in the future. Look at the direction of the IS F and the 8 speed sport direct-shift automatic. Lexus designed the IS F to be a medium between the C63 AMG and the M3. It's a balance of both.

 

why should GS differentiate itself?
we should be the mainstream, the leader!

 

well count me out.
i disagree with that 50%
i drove all 3 cars.

the merc is heavy and slow, and doesn't handle any better. it's not good at anything.
the bmw is better, but not A LOT better. it does feel more nimble.

 

While I somewhat agree with this I don't think its teh GS main problem. Rarely are these German cars or the M35/45 driven hard. Forget the track. I don't think Lexus buyers are dying for Lexus to become a German mimic. They want Lexus to do Lexus.

1. GS lease deals have been okay at best compared to the Germans or Infiniti throughtout its cycle. Its hard to compete when you can get a M35 for $399 a month for the past 4 years and BMW has crazy leases and Lexus doesn't subsidize. The flipside is the GS holds resale and Lexus and dealers are not broke with these questionable luxury sales tactics.
2. GS size. While everyone got bigger (yuck IMO) the GS stayed pretty much the same size. Well we live in a world where every sedan seems to be getting bigger so its hard to not do the same thing and be successful. The GS dimensions inside can be quite couple like. The IRONY to me is the GS interior and its dimensions give it the SPORTIEST size of the bunch inside and out. I don't find ATM dashes in the M34/45 or 5 sporty. I do find them nice though.
3. Styling. I find the GS styling to be great and "okay" and it simply does not stand out like it used to. Blame to 500 copycats or other cars that took GS styling cues. When the 3GS debuted it didn't see so new as the 2GS b/c of the copycats. Now the Jag XJ takes GS cues and its a bigger, newer car.
4. Marketing. 3GS marketing was average at best. The best ads were the ones with the figures 8s in response to Audi. The rest were a complete blah.
5. I still don't understand why Lexus didn't leave the GS 300 as a "value" model like the old BMW 525. BMW used to sell 1500 525s a MONTH!!! The GS 450h is a limited production model. Where is teh GS coupe? Wagon?
6. GS 430/460 has been just okay. Debuts with 300hp which in 2005 was not the big deal it was in 1997. Then the new SAE rating gives it 290. Then the GS 460 comes with 342hp (I wrongly predicited 400). Acceleration is midpack, its no longer fastest in class.

Now I do like your idea to "2IS" the GS. Great idea. The GS used to be the "bad ***" Lexus. Now that goes to the IS and the IS-F.


I can't see Lexus producing anything less BUT a grand slam with the 4GS. They cannot afford another double in this competitive market.

 

Those GS buyers right now who want Lexus just to do Lexus are not a very large customer base, I think that's the problem. If Lexus wants the next GS to have a break out from the current status quo, i.e., third in sales in it's class, selling about 50-60 % of what the E and the 5 are doing, & with the Infiniti M nipping on it's back, they cannot just do it the normal Lexus way as in the past and present with the GS.

I think the current GS would have done better in terms of sales than it is doing now if there were no Infiniti M35, like it was the case with the previous generation.
The M35 is sportier and bigger(with both passenger & luggage space) than the GS and it did take some sales from the GS, & I don't think you can only blame the better lease deals from Infiniti entirely.

While I don't want the GS to get too big, but they need to have a more efficient design in terms of maximizing internal space/luggage space than the current generation, & they do need to make it drive sportier. Right now, the current GS is not particularly good at anything. With similar size, they do need to differentiate the GS from the ES as much as possible, other than RWD/AWD versus FWD.

 

The main problem with this idea is that the ES and LS "do Lexus" on the top and bottom end of the GS range in terms of size, features, technology, and engines. Lexus really "did Lexus" with the current GS and that is part of why it's just not as compelling of a buy among it's two stable mates. You can have more features and luxury with a smooth, cushy ride for a little more money (LS), or you can skimp out on the design and forego a few little things and spend a lot less (ES). The GS doesn't offer anything that makes it a significant standout among those two cars- even the ride is not all that different from the ES believe it or not.

Agree here.


Once again I agree. I think the one thing that makes the GS interior feel a lot smaller than it really is, is the coupe like roofline. The car has a relatively small greenhouse which makes the interior feel a lot more intimate and cockpit-like than any of it's competitors. When I drove a GS for a month in 07, I could set the drivers seat to my setting and still sit perfectly comfortably behind myself and I am not a small dude (you know this lol). I can see where to prospective customers who don't spend considerable time in the car, it seems small. Little did we know the GS was far ahead of the four-door coupe trend

I can see what you mean, and while it's personal preference, I absolutely love the shape of the GS. I love the proportions, the roofline, the front and rear end, the interior, etc. I love every design element about the car and I know I am one of only a few people who feels that way. The next car I get will be a 3GS, and the only reason I can overcome the god-awful electric power steering is the design of the car. To me, this is dead sexy (but I'll need the 06-07 5 Spoke rims)




Agree. Their initial campaign with the start button was strong but they really lost momentum after that. The one figure 8 campaign was not enough nor run long enough.

I think it's probably to do with the ES 350 and IS. As mentioned several times, the ES is already nipping on the heels of the GS 350, a GS 300 would have been an even harder sell.

Agree.

I think the biggest thing they need to work on is the steering, handling, and suspension of the 4GS. The 3GS was the first Lexus to ever go to electric power steering and it is by far the single largest glaring flaw of the car. It feels completely dead on center and has an awful and unnatural feeling when you start turning it. There is not a progressive or linear response- the wheel feels wobbly on center and like it is working against you when you go right or left. The "Sport Sedan" Lexus drives almost WORSE than the ES or LS because of the god awful power steering.That said, I think they have gotten better with this in recent iterations so I do have higher hopes for the 4GS. The numbers tell us the GS is the performance standout between the ES and LS but behind the wheel you feel little difference, and I think consumers felt much the same way.

The bottom line is that they need to try harder to differentiate the GS from the ES and LS and give people a compelling reason to buy one. It needs to be the ONLY Lexus sedan in the $50K-60Kish range with a sport package that is fun to driver and that incite some sort of flame or passion. The GS really could be a great car just by it's merits- RWD, perfect size, some of the best engines and transmissions in the industry. Right now it doesn't ride or drive significantly different from the ES or LS to most people. The car needs to give the $40-50K shopper a reason to spend a little extra money to get into something that is much better than the ES, and the $55-$65K shopper a reason to get something other than the LS (read: sportier). Right now, the GS is neither.

 

what year are you living in?

 

I agree--those pix look terrible. They almost look like they are regressing in style.

 

The more they just rely on the "Lexus" nameplate to sell the car, the worse it will be. It doesn't have to differentiate itself by being something unique--just better. To be the mainstream leader, Lexus needs to continue to improve each car. Not by making the GS the best handling, or fastest, but adding unique features, intuitive controls and electronics, top notch quality and reliability, at competitive, if not undercut, prices.

That's what made them "Lexus" to begin with.

 

fix the rattles

and shape the headliner to make more headroom.

other cars have the sloped roof too, but their headliner is carved out to give an extra inch or two.

the exterior size of the car is big enough, but confusingly, the interior feels smaller than it should be, as if there's too much padding inside.


it would be funny to make a saloon model of the GS, and make it ride bouncy like an old cadillac/buick

 

I always thought that the GS was kind of the redheaded step child of Lexus (well, maybe the SC coupe) based mostly upon their decisions on engines ... more specifically their introductions ... always seemed strange. For instance, debuting w/ the 3.0 engine then bringing the 3.5 a short time later that made many wonder why anyone would be the then current v8 ... which did not get upgraded until a good while later.

In these tough times for auto makers, I think that it might be wise to consolidate & differentiate their variants a bit. For instance, still have the basic v6 but make the v8 the GS-F. The hybrid could be tuned more to fuel economy than performance since that would be the GS-F's arena ...

 

Lexus stated the reasoning for the engine changes. They wanted to keep the GS with constant engine updates like the Germans. The GS 300 until 2006 had the SAME engine from 93-05! The GS 430 engine was unchanged from 01-07. The 5 series was 525, 530, 545 then became 528, 535, 550.

In comparison Infiniti M35/45 has the same engines its entire lifespan and the RL has the same old V-6 with never any other engine choices.

 

Mostly they just lower the rear seat cushion, that's how it's accomplished. And for back seats that don't get used all that often, it works just fine.

 

looks like an ES more than a GS

 

Guys that rendition is no where near what the next GS will be. Some random pic in a car mag.