61% Say Don't Bailout US Auto Makers
I have a somewhat far out alternative...but here goes.
Ford has already said that they probably will not need a loan and may even start turning a profit by 2011. Let's say that Ford walks away from the table and says they don't need money.
If the government says no to the bailout plan then IMO, it would be interesting if Toyota stepped in and offered GM a ~$7Bil loan. I say this for two reasons
1) If the American companies fail I think that there could be a considerable backlash for Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. This has been noted time and time again. Toyota, if they have the cash on hand and can afford it, could look like the "good guy" for a hundred years to come which could be a great move for them, again, if they can afford it.
2) They did this for Honda years ago when Honda was on the verge of going bankrupt so in my mind, there is a lot to be said the the spirit of friendly competition.
Chrysler can and should die.
Ford has already said that they probably will not need a loan and may even start turning a profit by 2011. Let's say that Ford walks away from the table and says they don't need money.
If the government says no to the bailout plan then IMO, it would be interesting if Toyota stepped in and offered GM a ~$7Bil loan. I say this for two reasons
1) If the American companies fail I think that there could be a considerable backlash for Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. This has been noted time and time again. Toyota, if they have the cash on hand and can afford it, could look like the "good guy" for a hundred years to come which could be a great move for them, again, if they can afford it.
2) They did this for Honda years ago when Honda was on the verge of going bankrupt so in my mind, there is a lot to be said the the spirit of friendly competition.
Chrysler can and should die.
Lexus Champion
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(can't remember the exact numbers)
Free market system... let them go under. Even after all this time, the majority of American-made cars are rubbish.
But wait: what will the rental car companies do?
Pole Position
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Hyundai and Kia will have a great year! 
MPLexus301: Its so bad that I almost feel like Ford should be given some sort of spiff just for having the ability to survive the year without additional help. Does anyone else feel like Ford has to be there just to show solidarity? I too feel more and more each day that Chrysler should just go and leave GM and Ford.
MPLexus301: Its so bad that I almost feel like Ford should be given some sort of spiff just for having the ability to survive the year without additional help. Does anyone else feel like Ford has to be there just to show solidarity? I too feel more and more each day that Chrysler should just go and leave GM and Ford.
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I agree, by Chrysler. Again though, Daimhler totally raped them for their resources and left them for dead. They should call them out on it.
Ford still is reeling from the Firestone lawsuit, lets not forget that. They were doing GREAT until that happened. However the Ford 500 was a step in the WRONG direction and a total flop. They invested in a Ford GT instead of mainstream models.
Fords lineup as a whole is pretty solid (the Focus could have been better). They are reliable, have good interiors and decent styling sometimes.
Why not put the doggone people in charge in Europe in America. They seemingly are more in touch with buyers than the guys here.
THe UAW is going to seriously have to concede some $$$$$$ or EVERYONE loses.
Ford still is reeling from the Firestone lawsuit, lets not forget that. They were doing GREAT until that happened. However the Ford 500 was a step in the WRONG direction and a total flop. They invested in a Ford GT instead of mainstream models.
Fords lineup as a whole is pretty solid (the Focus could have been better). They are reliable, have good interiors and decent styling sometimes.
Why not put the doggone people in charge in Europe in America. They seemingly are more in touch with buyers than the guys here.
THe UAW is going to seriously have to concede some $$$$$$ or EVERYONE loses.
Would you happen to have a link to the real proposal? I have seen various leaked news reports but I haven't seen anywhere yet where the actual proposal from any of them was released. Even this morning, the early news stories on Gettelfingers press conference was that the UAW was ready to eliminate the jobs bank. That was quickly revised to be that someone, who does not want to be named, made the statement that the UAW would proposal would "virtually eliminate the jobs bank". Well that's a much different story.
The best reason for GFC to go into bankruptcy is not that they have to renegotiate the UAW contract, they need to rip them up and bust the union. Otherwise, they will find that whatever the UAW does will only be a "concesssion" and if sales come back, they will be right back wanting to put the same plans back in effect that keep GFC from competing. And GFC management will cave. Once again, I am not saying that the UAW is the only problem GFC have. Far from it. But they need fixes, not just diversions and bandaids. I really want to take a look at those plans but I doubt they will be released.
The best reason for GFC to go into bankruptcy is not that they have to renegotiate the UAW contract, they need to rip them up and bust the union. Otherwise, they will find that whatever the UAW does will only be a "concesssion" and if sales come back, they will be right back wanting to put the same plans back in effect that keep GFC from competing. And GFC management will cave. Once again, I am not saying that the UAW is the only problem GFC have. Far from it. But they need fixes, not just diversions and bandaids. I really want to take a look at those plans but I doubt they will be released.
I also think that Toyota should offer GM a loan. They have a ridiculous amount of money in the bank. Offer them the loan with conditions on Toyota helping them restructure their business. Including complete renegotiation of UAW contracts and submitting all of those records to a public forum.
Last edited by Bean; Dec 4, 2008 at 07:57 AM.
Lexus Champion
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its dog eat dog, Toyota, a business gains nothing from the goodwil. I'll tell you what my friend from Indy said, a DIE hard, Harley Davidson, Chevy, GOD BLESS THE USA guy, served 2 tours in IRAQ. He moved out here to So Cal with his family and we worked together. He would make fun of my Japenese crap Lexus and Civic. Then a funny thing happened, his family back home was telling him how great life was getting because Honda just built a car plant in their town. He said "I guess I'll have to lay off bashing your Honda, they are really helping my home town".
THAT is what Toyota should do, let the US companies die if they can't survive, then build more Toyota plants, there shouldn't be any backlash from the public, that is very short sighted, they should all go out and buy American built Honda's and Toyota's.
LET the Detroit 2.5 die or figure it out on their own. The UAW will single handily kill the bailout by not making permenant changes.
THAT is what Toyota should do, let the US companies die if they can't survive, then build more Toyota plants, there shouldn't be any backlash from the public, that is very short sighted, they should all go out and buy American built Honda's and Toyota's.
LET the Detroit 2.5 die or figure it out on their own. The UAW will single handily kill the bailout by not making permenant changes.
Last edited by LexFather; Dec 6, 2008 at 10:36 AM.
I was divided on this issue but I now say NO to the bailout. You reap what you sow the end.Maybe Toyota can one of them out like others suggested. The die hard NASCAR fans would love that lol.
at first i say bailout, but to think of all this time, us automakers, for the most part have been making crappy cars. what big hybrid does any of the big 3 have to offer to the public on a mass production level. none come to my mind. while just about everyone else is improving and moving with the times, big 3 is still very far behind. and honestly i think if toyota were to help with bailout, they should have reps monitoring over the shoulders of the big 3 for restructuring, portfolio checks etc. after all, wouldnt any one want to make sure that their money is being used for what it was intended. and... take some share. after all, like someone stated, this is dog eat dog world.
Charley
Charley
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Nice post. I couldn't have said it better myself.
I also think that Toyota should offer GM a loan. They have a ridiculous amount of money in the bank. Offer them the loan with conditions on Toyota helping them restructure their business. Including complete renegotiation of UAW contracts and submitting all of those records to a public forum.
I also think that Toyota should offer GM a loan. They have a ridiculous amount of money in the bank. Offer them the loan with conditions on Toyota helping them restructure their business. Including complete renegotiation of UAW contracts and submitting all of those records to a public forum.
I doubt we will ever get enough details released on their plans to be able to develop informed opinions. But I can say from small biz 101, if you are in the shape they are in (GM blowing through $4B a month), you need to cut costs yesterday. I hope Congress tells them to take their reduced costs by 2012 and tells them they need to be thinking in terms of reducing costs by 12/20 this year.
Lexus Champion
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From: ca
MPLexus301: Its so bad that I almost feel like Ford should be given some sort of spiff just for having the ability to survive the year without additional help. Does anyone else feel like Ford has to be there just to show solidarity? I too feel more and more each day that Chrysler should just go and leave GM and Ford.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: ca
Drive VOLT TO D.C.
Turns out that Volt the CEO drove to D.C. to beg for money spent most of its time on a flatbed:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...ngton-Sort-Of/
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...ngton-Sort-Of/
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 22,608
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From: Waiting for next track day
let them fall. Who is going to bail you out if you lose your great job and cant afford to make your loan payments. GM, ford, and dodge would sleep great at night while you were homeless. A bailout IMO, is unamerican and goes directly against the priciples of capitalism. Capitalism is financial evolution.... they must go exstinct.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2003
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From: Massachusetts
I have a somewhat far out alternative...but here goes.
Ford has already said that they probably will not need a loan and may even start turning a profit by 2011. Let's say that Ford walks away from the table and says they don't need money.
If the government says no to the bailout plan then IMO, it would be interesting if Toyota stepped in and offered GM a ~$7Bil loan. I say this for two reasons
1) If the American companies fail I think that there could be a considerable backlash for Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. This has been noted time and time again. Toyota, if they have the cash on hand and can afford it, could look like the "good guy" for a hundred years to come which could be a great move for them, again, if they can afford it.
2) They did this for Honda years ago when Honda was on the verge of going bankrupt so in my mind, there is a lot to be said the the spirit of friendly competition.
Chrysler can and should die.
Ford has already said that they probably will not need a loan and may even start turning a profit by 2011. Let's say that Ford walks away from the table and says they don't need money.
If the government says no to the bailout plan then IMO, it would be interesting if Toyota stepped in and offered GM a ~$7Bil loan. I say this for two reasons
1) If the American companies fail I think that there could be a considerable backlash for Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. This has been noted time and time again. Toyota, if they have the cash on hand and can afford it, could look like the "good guy" for a hundred years to come which could be a great move for them, again, if they can afford it.
2) They did this for Honda years ago when Honda was on the verge of going bankrupt so in my mind, there is a lot to be said the the spirit of friendly competition.
Chrysler can and should die.