More lol: Acura V8 won't arrive until 2015
12-03-08, 04:17 AM
#91
Pole Position
Yeah, I own a 2002 EX V6 Accord. The Camry of the same generation is the "toaster appliance". Numb over assited steering with virtually zero feedback, boat-like driving dynamics, and interior ergonomics that are not up to the Accords. The Accord is just more sporty (yet isn't as sporty as the Passat). I also have a 2004 Accord EX coupe with navitation and leather. Again, sorry to say the Accord is much more involving than the Solara, and again has better interior ergonomics (did Toyota ever have a nav package this good? I can say any command I want and it will do - climate control 67 for example). Again, the 2.4L i-VTEC was a far better motor than whatever I4 was in the Solara. It was noisy and did not sound anywhere near as well made as the iVTEC, especiallay at high RPMs. This car does 7.5 seconds to 60 with the manual, I think that's pretty good for a car that also averages 33mpg on the highway. Again, I have thoroughly critisized some cheap build issues compared to the Passat and VWs, but Honda is at least superior to the Camry/Solara of the time (this has changed with the newest Camry, which I'd take over the Accord in a heartbeat). I've critisized Honda heavily on this website, so I am not some coolaid drinker, but I will call it like I see them, and in this case, that generation of Camry/Solara was just numb and boring, not to mention extremely ugly (97-01).
12-03-08, 04:26 AM
#92
Pole Position
Take the 2nd Gen GS which I own right now, it is a serious lower ball joint failure design defect issue, a major expensive door lock actuator faulty design/design defect issue, suspension rattle/squeak issues, interior rattle issues, big moisture in the headlight issues, starter issues, etc. Lexus has done absolutely nothing whatsoever to address these major design defects.
Just today there is someone on CL whose ball joint just failed while his wife and child were driving his Lexus GS and his front tire fell off and they almost slammed into a telephone pole, luckily they were going slow and not going fast or else their probably would have been a serious injury or death. The amount of premature ball joint failures on the 2nd Gen GS is staggering and even more staggering how Lexus continues to ignore the issue and say nothing is wrong with their widely known design defect. They have not even bothered to try and notify and warn current GS owners that there is a serious safety hazard and issue with this car and taken the steps to rectify it. That is absolutely unacceptable. Corporate will tell you these are just random incidents and there is nothing wrong or unsafe with what is on the cars. Try having them take some kind of responsibility for it after the warranty that they did not extend for this design defect issue and they pretty much laugh at you.
Just today there is someone on CL whose ball joint just failed while his wife and child were driving his Lexus GS and his front tire fell off and they almost slammed into a telephone pole, luckily they were going slow and not going fast or else their probably would have been a serious injury or death. The amount of premature ball joint failures on the 2nd Gen GS is staggering and even more staggering how Lexus continues to ignore the issue and say nothing is wrong with their widely known design defect. They have not even bothered to try and notify and warn current GS owners that there is a serious safety hazard and issue with this car and taken the steps to rectify it. That is absolutely unacceptable. Corporate will tell you these are just random incidents and there is nothing wrong or unsafe with what is on the cars. Try having them take some kind of responsibility for it after the warranty that they did not extend for this design defect issue and they pretty much laugh at you.
12-03-08, 06:03 AM
#93
Lexus Fanatic
12-03-08, 06:13 AM
#94
Lexus Fanatic
I can assure you that Lexus has never had a ball joint "issue" on the GS. I've worked for Lexus for the past 8 years and we've only done ball joints on GS's that have been lowered. That means they've been modified. And why should Lexus pay for that? I can tell you, it's a fact that nearly every GS we've EVER put ball joints on, was lowered, and, the ball joints in a non-lowered GS can be expected to last as long as any normal ball joint.
It's good to hear this from someone like you who works on cars for a living. I tell so many people, time and time again, the less they screw around with factory parts and factory settings, in most cases, the better off they willl be (unless it is just cosmetic stuff). Engineers design new cars like they do for a reason. It is an exact and demanding science, and they get paid good salaries for it.
Of course, that does not mean that the factory always gets it perfect. I've driven new Lexus products (including my own IS300) that had transmission flare issues.
12-03-08, 07:06 AM
#95
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I totally disagree especially about how you say Acura/Honda has addressed reliability/quality issues vs how Lexus/Toyota have addressed all their issues. In my experience there is a huge difference how Lexus and Acura have generally handled their reliability problems/issues and Lexus has not been close to doing a better job then Acura.
Take the 2nd Gen GS which I own right now, it is a serious lower ball joint failure design defect issue, a major expensive door lock actuator faulty design/design defect issue, suspension rattle/squeak issues, interior rattle issues, big moisture in the headlight issues, starter issues, etc. Lexus has done absolutely nothing whatsoever to address these major design defects.
Just today there is someone on CL whose ball joint just failed while his wife and child were driving his Lexus GS and his front tire fell off and they almost slammed into a telephone pole, luckily they were going slow and not going fast or else their probably would have been a serious injury or death. The amount of premature ball joint failures on the 2nd Gen GS is staggering and even more staggering how Lexus continues to ignore the issue and say nothing is wrong with their widely known design defect. They have not even bothered to try and notify and warn current GS owners that there is a serious safety hazard and issue with this car and taken the steps to rectify it. That is absolutely unacceptable. Corporate will tell you these are just random incidents and there is nothing wrong or unsafe with what is on the cars. Try having them take some kind of responsibility for it after the warranty that they did not extend for this design defect issue and they pretty much laugh at you.
Every day I read about someone else with door lock actuator failures which Lexus has also totally ignored. I have been quoted $520 from Lexus just to fix one door lock actuator and when I notified corporate they said there was no issue and it was a isolated incident. Even though my car was only a month and a half passed warranty and I had 47K miles Lexus refused to offer any kind of assistance after I want through all the steps of officially getting the problem diagnosed at the dealership and making all the phone calls. That is not treating your customers with any kind of respect or care. They also denied there was an issue with the moisture in my headlights even though it is very well known. Just having 2 actuators go out which is common costs what you would pay for major engine/transmission work to fix and Lexus will not budge once it is out of warranty even though it is a very well known design defect.
I take my Lexus to the dealer a couple times to try to diagnose the terrible suspension squeaks and all they want to do is keep charging me for all these TSB repairs/adjustments to try and diagnose the issue which they still do not do but I had to pay over $150 for them to try, sorry I am not too impressed with Lexus addressing issues or taking care of its customers.
Lexus has also recently told the people all the issues with the new 6 speed transmission and the rpm flashing that they are having is just normal and how it was designed and refuse to address it, leaving many angry owners. How is that good customer service or taking car of reliability issues. The new GS, IS has had numerous issues I read about all the time and the GS awd was placed on the not recommended list of consumer reports. Toyota models also have tons of issues and problems with the new Camry and Tundra topping the list. How about the engine sludge failures issue with the Toyota/Lexus V6 they ignored and never addressed until owners threatened to sue them.
I know no company including Lexus is perfect nor do I expect them to be but the way they have been handling many issue and problems is unacceptable especially with the 2nd Gen GS door lock actuators, lower ball joints, ES350 engine/transmission issues.
If you are going to bring up the Acura transmission issues particularly with the 2000-2003 5 speed auto TLs, Acura has done a much better job then Lexus at addressing their issues. My parents owned a 99TL and own a 03CL and Acura mailed them 2 seperate notices saying some cars may hava trans issue and it needs to be taken to the dealer and looked at to see if it is affected and a extra lubrication tube will be added, they also extended their warranties to 100K miles even on the 99 with the 4 speed auto that did not have the trans issue. Although it is not perfect it was a very reasonable way of addressing the issue compared to just ignoring it and not extending warranties. The only issue with my moms 99TL is it had a EGR valve blockage diagnosis after a light came on that was going to cost over $300 to fix, the car was well passed warranty for it with close to 100K miles but when she called Acura corporate and said she read there was an issue they said not to worry and they will pay for the repair in full, that is properly addressing issues and taking care of your customers.
The lower ball joint premature failure issue is a very big safety issue and much bigger then just a transmission going out. I have driven a car when the transmission was slipping and went out and I never lost control or almost got into an accident like what will happen when your lower ball joints goes and crushes your suspension or causes your wheel to come off. This is just a disaster waiting to happen and Lexus is ignoring and will ignore it until something terrible happens and they are about to be exposed. They don't want to address it because they don't want to fault their high quality/reliability ratings and reputations.
Lexus nor Acura are not perfect nor do I expect them to even be close to perfect but the way Lexus has handled many of its known issues and treats you once you are out of warranty is unacceptable and has highly disappointed me and I while owning the GS I wish I was treated as well as Acura has treated my parents and others Acura owners I know. I don't care how much people are fans of the brand there are some instances where they should not always be blindly defended and it should be demanded they conduct themselves better.
Take the 2nd Gen GS which I own right now, it is a serious lower ball joint failure design defect issue, a major expensive door lock actuator faulty design/design defect issue, suspension rattle/squeak issues, interior rattle issues, big moisture in the headlight issues, starter issues, etc. Lexus has done absolutely nothing whatsoever to address these major design defects.
Just today there is someone on CL whose ball joint just failed while his wife and child were driving his Lexus GS and his front tire fell off and they almost slammed into a telephone pole, luckily they were going slow and not going fast or else their probably would have been a serious injury or death. The amount of premature ball joint failures on the 2nd Gen GS is staggering and even more staggering how Lexus continues to ignore the issue and say nothing is wrong with their widely known design defect. They have not even bothered to try and notify and warn current GS owners that there is a serious safety hazard and issue with this car and taken the steps to rectify it. That is absolutely unacceptable. Corporate will tell you these are just random incidents and there is nothing wrong or unsafe with what is on the cars. Try having them take some kind of responsibility for it after the warranty that they did not extend for this design defect issue and they pretty much laugh at you.
Every day I read about someone else with door lock actuator failures which Lexus has also totally ignored. I have been quoted $520 from Lexus just to fix one door lock actuator and when I notified corporate they said there was no issue and it was a isolated incident. Even though my car was only a month and a half passed warranty and I had 47K miles Lexus refused to offer any kind of assistance after I want through all the steps of officially getting the problem diagnosed at the dealership and making all the phone calls. That is not treating your customers with any kind of respect or care. They also denied there was an issue with the moisture in my headlights even though it is very well known. Just having 2 actuators go out which is common costs what you would pay for major engine/transmission work to fix and Lexus will not budge once it is out of warranty even though it is a very well known design defect.
I take my Lexus to the dealer a couple times to try to diagnose the terrible suspension squeaks and all they want to do is keep charging me for all these TSB repairs/adjustments to try and diagnose the issue which they still do not do but I had to pay over $150 for them to try, sorry I am not too impressed with Lexus addressing issues or taking care of its customers.
Lexus has also recently told the people all the issues with the new 6 speed transmission and the rpm flashing that they are having is just normal and how it was designed and refuse to address it, leaving many angry owners. How is that good customer service or taking car of reliability issues. The new GS, IS has had numerous issues I read about all the time and the GS awd was placed on the not recommended list of consumer reports. Toyota models also have tons of issues and problems with the new Camry and Tundra topping the list. How about the engine sludge failures issue with the Toyota/Lexus V6 they ignored and never addressed until owners threatened to sue them.
I know no company including Lexus is perfect nor do I expect them to be but the way they have been handling many issue and problems is unacceptable especially with the 2nd Gen GS door lock actuators, lower ball joints, ES350 engine/transmission issues.
If you are going to bring up the Acura transmission issues particularly with the 2000-2003 5 speed auto TLs, Acura has done a much better job then Lexus at addressing their issues. My parents owned a 99TL and own a 03CL and Acura mailed them 2 seperate notices saying some cars may hava trans issue and it needs to be taken to the dealer and looked at to see if it is affected and a extra lubrication tube will be added, they also extended their warranties to 100K miles even on the 99 with the 4 speed auto that did not have the trans issue. Although it is not perfect it was a very reasonable way of addressing the issue compared to just ignoring it and not extending warranties. The only issue with my moms 99TL is it had a EGR valve blockage diagnosis after a light came on that was going to cost over $300 to fix, the car was well passed warranty for it with close to 100K miles but when she called Acura corporate and said she read there was an issue they said not to worry and they will pay for the repair in full, that is properly addressing issues and taking care of your customers.
The lower ball joint premature failure issue is a very big safety issue and much bigger then just a transmission going out. I have driven a car when the transmission was slipping and went out and I never lost control or almost got into an accident like what will happen when your lower ball joints goes and crushes your suspension or causes your wheel to come off. This is just a disaster waiting to happen and Lexus is ignoring and will ignore it until something terrible happens and they are about to be exposed. They don't want to address it because they don't want to fault their high quality/reliability ratings and reputations.
Lexus nor Acura are not perfect nor do I expect them to even be close to perfect but the way Lexus has handled many of its known issues and treats you once you are out of warranty is unacceptable and has highly disappointed me and I while owning the GS I wish I was treated as well as Acura has treated my parents and others Acura owners I know. I don't care how much people are fans of the brand there are some instances where they should not always be blindly defended and it should be demanded they conduct themselves better.
. Just because YOU have a problem with your GS, and you have a personal vendetta against Toyota/Lexus DOES not make it a fact. UNTIL you post any sort of factual evidence to back up the fact that the ball joint issue on the GS is a "staggering issue" than really you have very little credibility.
I HAVE been, and often am on the GS forums. The ball joint issue is NOT as big as you claim it is. On other Lexus/Toyota forums, it is not a big issue. Nobody is getting ready to file class-action lawsuits or signing petitions for GS ball joints, compared to what people are doing for the Civic Si transmission problems.
And like others and I have replied to you numerous times, what you seem to have is a DEALER issue. Because your dealer has treated you poorly, you seem determined to take out on Toyota/Lexus in general. Did you visit multiple dealers with your GS problems? Did you make any serious attempt to reach Lexus corporate or Lexus head office with your issues? Did you at least try and reach someone higher up at Lexus? Is your GS suspension FULLY stock or is it modified?
Yeah, I own a 2002 EX V6 Accord. The Camry of the same generation is the "toaster appliance". Numb over assited steering with virtually zero feedback, boat-like driving dynamics, and interior ergonomics that are not up to the Accords. The Accord is just more sporty (yet isn't as sporty as the Passat). I also have a 2004 Accord EX coupe with navitation and leather. Again, sorry to say the Accord is much more involving than the Solara, and again has better interior ergonomics (did Toyota ever have a nav package this good? I can say any command I want and it will do - climate control 67 for example). Again, the 2.4L i-VTEC was a far better motor than whatever I4 was in the Solara. It was noisy and did not sound anywhere near as well made as the iVTEC, especiallay at high RPMs. This car does 7.5 seconds to 60 with the manual, I think that's pretty good for a car that also averages 33mpg on the highway. Again, I have thoroughly critisized some cheap build issues compared to the Passat and VWs, but Honda is at least superior to the Camry/Solara of the time (this has changed with the newest Camry, which I'd take over the Accord in a heartbeat). I've critisized Honda heavily on this website, so I am not some coolaid drinker, but I will call it like I see them, and in this case, that generation of Camry/Solara was just numb and boring, not to mention extremely ugly (97-01).
Just like you, I call it like I see it and the fact is exploding or breaking Honda trannies are NOT the same thing as slipping or weird-shifting Toyota transmissions. Certain Honda transmissions in certain models, both manual and automatic, have SERIOUS issues that can lead to exploding or breaking trannies. These are issues that Honda has not FULLY addressed in all cases. Once again, I'm calling it like I see it.
Also as rominl mentioned, I'm not quite sure why you keep bringing in various Toyota products into this Honda discussion.
Honda/Acura v6 engines are still among the smoothest engines currently available despite the basic engine being a pretty old design, much older then the competition and not having newer technologies like direct injection. Some reviews comparing the TL-S, G35, IS350 mentioned the TLs engine was the smoothest. Even the newer G37 engine is still be criticized for being pretty rough at higher revs. Acura/Honda power is still impressive despite being older, using SOHC design, no direct injection, saddled to 5 speed autos,etc and they are still very competitive. Honda/Acura is a little late in the new engine, multi speed trans, DI, game but I am sure when the new series of v6 comes out they will be top of their game and will set new standards.
I have driven several Acuras and Hondas and own a v8 Lexus and I don't understand how you think they are somehow difficult to drive in bad weather and annoying to drive in the city, especially Acura vehicles because of their engines. If anything a heavy rwd car with a torquey v8 like my Lexus is the more difficult and dangerous car to drive in rain and winter conditions and I have experienced that first hand with a few close calls. FWD is always better then rwd to drive in wet/winter conditions especially a rwd vehicle with a big torquey engine. Acura engines are generally not known to have a ton of lowdown torque and make more power higher in the rev range but they are anything but underpowered or insufficient for driving around the city or for passing, they have more then enough power for everyday driving in any conditions. Even the 4 cyl TSX I test drove had decent power. The MDXs, RDX, RLs, have plenty of torque down low, more then enough, and I never felt wanting for more torque . My parents TLs and CLs have plenty of torque and power and have never bothered me even coming from 325lb of torque from my Lexus.
There really are not too many segments around the world aside from the US that demands high torque engines, most segments demand fuel efficiency, less pollution, and smaller displacement which Honda does very well. Most engines sold in Europe even in big rwd flagships are 6 cylinders and diesels, not high torque big gasoline engines.
After driving the new 09 TL and driving the 08 I don't find their engines lacking in power or refinement, they are still excellent. They don't have the torque of my v8 but then again they get much better fuel economy too and are much less expensive. Their are a few cars now with more power and that are quicker in the segment but not many and it is not a very big difference. When the new v6 arrives and multi speed trans arrive they will be tops in their segment again, Acura/Honda have just taken more time with these engines.
I have driven several Acuras and Hondas and own a v8 Lexus and I don't understand how you think they are somehow difficult to drive in bad weather and annoying to drive in the city, especially Acura vehicles because of their engines. If anything a heavy rwd car with a torquey v8 like my Lexus is the more difficult and dangerous car to drive in rain and winter conditions and I have experienced that first hand with a few close calls. FWD is always better then rwd to drive in wet/winter conditions especially a rwd vehicle with a big torquey engine. Acura engines are generally not known to have a ton of lowdown torque and make more power higher in the rev range but they are anything but underpowered or insufficient for driving around the city or for passing, they have more then enough power for everyday driving in any conditions. Even the 4 cyl TSX I test drove had decent power. The MDXs, RDX, RLs, have plenty of torque down low, more then enough, and I never felt wanting for more torque . My parents TLs and CLs have plenty of torque and power and have never bothered me even coming from 325lb of torque from my Lexus.
There really are not too many segments around the world aside from the US that demands high torque engines, most segments demand fuel efficiency, less pollution, and smaller displacement which Honda does very well. Most engines sold in Europe even in big rwd flagships are 6 cylinders and diesels, not high torque big gasoline engines.
After driving the new 09 TL and driving the 08 I don't find their engines lacking in power or refinement, they are still excellent. They don't have the torque of my v8 but then again they get much better fuel economy too and are much less expensive. Their are a few cars now with more power and that are quicker in the segment but not many and it is not a very big difference. When the new v6 arrives and multi speed trans arrive they will be tops in their segment again, Acura/Honda have just taken more time with these engines.
I wasn't even talking about FWD vs RWD, I don't know why you brought that up. What I mean was apples to apples, FWD vs FWD, the competition is easier to drive in difficult conditions than Honda vehicles. A FWD Toyota is easier to drive in rain or snow because it has more low-end torque compared to a Honda.
You obviously have no idea what different overseas markets demand in terms of engines. Europe for instance demands diesel engines, and Honda has an extremely limited diesel engine lineup. Markets like the Middle East demand SUVS with high-torque engines for driving in desert conditions, something which Honda does not provide. Other markets like Australia demand trucks and SUVs with high torque engines for harsh conditions. Many Asian markets demand small, tough trucks with high-torque engines for a variety of conditions. That's not even including other markets like Africa or South America, where high-torque engines are demanded for off-road and jungle conditions.
Not many cars are quicker in the segment? The new TL is one of the SLOWEST cars in the segment. The CTS 3.6L DI, IS350, 335i, G37 are ALL faster.
When that happens, the competition will ALSO have new engines and transmissions. What exactly is your point?
Yeah, but apparently you didn't catch the point...
The 25% drop is the brand spanking new totally redesigned '09 TL comparing to the out-going last generation model from last year.
Let's stick with apple-to-apple comparisons here shall we?
Oh and by the way, Acura is down 38.9% in November which is more than any of the brands you've listed above except the hopeless Chrysler. Some perspective...
The 25% drop is the brand spanking new totally redesigned '09 TL comparing to the out-going last generation model from last year.
Let's stick with apple-to-apple comparisons here shall we?
Oh and by the way, Acura is down 38.9% in November which is more than any of the brands you've listed above except the hopeless Chrysler. Some perspective...
12-03-08, 07:28 AM
#97
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Also to add, problems like the Tundra axle/joints or the so-called GS ball joint issues are fixed in the new generation vehicles. Even the Toyota transmission problems on newer models are not as bad as a few years ago.
New Honda vehicles *continue* to have transmission problems, most apparent being the current Civic Si.
New Honda vehicles *continue* to have transmission problems, most apparent being the current Civic Si.
12-03-08, 08:02 AM
#98
Racer
Ok, I’m starting to get confuse. Does Honda make the transmissions or do a third party company? I agree Honda has a problem with their transmissions. Like I post earlier, my CL has 252000 miles on the odometer and the only problem I have had with the car is the transmission. Therefore, I must say it has been a pretty good car. How I wish I would have purchase an Integra type r back in the day but at least I owned a NSX. You can talk about V8's all day but that car was amazing. Some days I would sit and just look at that car.
12-03-08, 08:21 AM
#99
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Styling is subjective, so I won't argue with that. That gen Camry was more refined and most composed than that gen Accord over rough roads. I've driven both generations of those vehicles thoroughly in a variety of conditions. While the Accord is faster and sportier, the Camry is more refined and I find more comfortable. That and it has a better rear seat area. It all depends what you're looking for in a car.
Just like you, I call it like I see it and the fact is exploding or breaking Honda trannies are NOT the same thing as slipping or weird-shifting Toyota transmissions. Certain Honda transmissions in certain models, both manual and automatic, have SERIOUS issues that can lead to exploding or breaking trannies. These are issues that Honda has not FULLY addressed in all cases. Once again, I'm calling it like I see it.
Also as rominl mentioned, I'm not quite sure why you keep bringing in various Toyota products into this Honda discussion.
...Maybe when you've actually owned a product and have dealt with Honda/Acura on this issue and stop relying on second hand information you can make these broad statements. Until then, you're just copying and pasting internet chatter to hammer on Honda, without having a foundational udnerstanding of what's really going on here. You don't even have a clear understanding of what the 3rd gear TSB is all about, which won't cause the transmission to "explode". Honda has extended their warranty, admitted to an "unusually high number of design defects" and started a re-imbursement program. What the hell else do you want them to do? Or are you just looking for a reason to hammer them? Come back with first hand experience and then perhaps I can take this statement more seriosuly. I own a Honda Accord, I am not bias towards Honda, Toyota, VW, but it's obvious what team your on.
As far as the Accord/Camry of that era, neither are very composed at high speeds (80+) like a German sedan. Refinement is vastly inferior to the Audi A4-sourced Passat, in both cars.
...Back in reality the US economy is in a recession. Hardly even any anecdotal evidence to make a broad statement like that. How do you explain most manufactures have seen their sales drop almost 35-40% YOY? You're looking for evidence, yet unfortunetly for you, there is no way to draw a correlation like that, based on your reasoning much less.
Last edited by FKL; 12-03-08 at 08:24 AM.
12-03-08, 08:23 AM
#100
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Ok, I’m starting to get confuse. Does Honda make the transmissions or do a third party company? I agree Honda has a problem with their transmissions. Like I post earlier, my CL has 252000 miles on the odometer and the only problem I have had with the car is the transmission. Therefore, I must say it has been a pretty good car. How I wish I would have purchase an Integra type r back in the day but at least I owned a NSX. You can talk about V8's all day but that car was amazing. Some days I would sit and just look at that car.
12-03-08, 09:50 AM
#101
At least Honda is releasing a TSB on the Civic Si. Toyota hasn't done much with the ES' transmission flare. Many owners were given the finger and told that it's 'normal'. 
I'm not as surprised to see problems with the Civic Si since many owners drive them harder than the normal LX/EX/etc.
Still every one has problems. If it happened already, then it happened. The best thing you can do is hope that the manufacturer will extend warranty and/or replace the part(s).
I'm not as surprised to see problems with the Civic Si since many owners drive them harder than the normal LX/EX/etc. Still every one has problems. If it happened already, then it happened. The best thing you can do is hope that the manufacturer will extend warranty and/or replace the part(s).
12-03-08, 07:37 PM
#102
Lexus Fanatic
The conflict between Acura corporate and dealers mirrors the internal conflict within Honda right now.
.
Just because YOU have a problem with your GS, and you have a personal vendetta against Toyota/Lexus DOES not make it a fact. UNTIL you post any sort of factual evidence to back up the fact that the ball joint issue on the GS is a "staggering issue" than really you have very little credibility.
And like others and I have replied to you numerous times, what you seem to have is a DEALER issue. Because your dealer has treated you poorly, you seem determined to take out on Toyota/Lexus in general. Did you visit multiple dealers with your GS problems? Did you make any serious attempt to reach Lexus corporate or Lexus head office with your issues? Did you at least try and reach someone higher up at Lexus? Is your GS suspension FULLY stock or is it modified?
. Just because YOU have a problem with your GS, and you have a personal vendetta against Toyota/Lexus DOES not make it a fact. UNTIL you post any sort of factual evidence to back up the fact that the ball joint issue on the GS is a "staggering issue" than really you have very little credibility.
And like others and I have replied to you numerous times, what you seem to have is a DEALER issue. Because your dealer has treated you poorly, you seem determined to take out on Toyota/Lexus in general. Did you visit multiple dealers with your GS problems? Did you make any serious attempt to reach Lexus corporate or Lexus head office with your issues? Did you at least try and reach someone higher up at Lexus? Is your GS suspension FULLY stock or is it modified?
My problem is how Lexus has handled many of the issues it has with certain vehicles or more or less not handled properly, it does not mean I hate or dislike Lexus but I expect more from them and am disappointed. As a owner I am going to be more vocal because I am affected, I don't give automakers a pass or defend them just because I own them.
The lower ball joint issue with the GS is not just an isolated issue, it is very widespread. It is not just people who have had their vehicles damaged by lower ball joint failures but all the people who had theirs checked after reading this forum and had to get them replaced because there was play in them and they were faulty and in danger of prematurely failing. The sad thing is Club Lexus has done a much better and thorough job of giving a heads up and warning about the ball joint issue with the GS then Lexus Corporate has, if it was not for Club Lexus and other Lexus websites there would be alot more people whose ball joints failed because they would not know about the issue and get them inspected right away, the least Lexus should do is make a genuine effort to warn owners about this potential safety issue that needs to be addressed.
I have taken my GS to several different Lexus/Toyota dealerships and none of them were really helpful with my issues but they were all well aware of the ball joint and door lock actuator issues as they see and deal with them all time, it was not just one dealership, I have contacted Lexus Corporate several times by phone as well as written them and they did not make any real effort to help me at all. So far after getting them checked numerous times my ball joints are fine but it still makes me nervous driving the GS knowing there is an issue especially when I hear creaking sounds going over speed bumps that have never been properly diagnosed. My suspension is stock as well as my car, not really into modding mainly because I know modding often hurts reliability. Not all ball joint failures are on modded cars either and if a car has a super stiff lowered to the ground suspension/shocks with big heavy rims then they are asking for suspension problems, that is not the issue. Same with Acura or other makes transmissions, I don't feel too sorry for the people who had an Honda/Acura transmission blow when they had a turbo, super charger installed, heavily modified the car for power/speed and beat on the car constantly and then guess what their transmission goes, that is what happens when you take a car beyond the limits what it was engineered for. There were also people who did not have their Honda/Acuras modded and the transmission still went and their transmission should have been replaced for free and warranty extended. I don't expect Lexus or Acura to be perfect but do expect them to make an effort and take proper steps in addressing issue with their cars and try to make their owners happy.
I don't want to see or hear about someone getting hurt or killed in a crash that was caused by a ball joint failure on their GS and there have been a few close calls so far nor do I want to get hurt or killed because of this safety issue that has not been properly addressed. I don't want to see the value and reputation of my GS to plummet either if something does happen and it is put all over the news, I would rather Lexus just properly address it now before something happens, the least they can do is give a visible warning and have a properly engineered ball joint available so we don't have to worry about this issue.
Last edited by UDel; 12-03-08 at 07:51 PM.
12-03-08, 07:49 PM
#103
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Yeah, but apparently you didn't catch the point...
The 25% drop is the brand spanking new totally redesigned '09 TL comparing to the out-going last generation model from last year.
Let's stick with apple-to-apple comparisons here shall we?
Oh and by the way, Acura is down 38.9% in November which is more than any of the brands you've listed above except the hopeless Chrysler. Some perspective...
The 25% drop is the brand spanking new totally redesigned '09 TL comparing to the out-going last generation model from last year.
Let's stick with apple-to-apple comparisons here shall we?
Oh and by the way, Acura is down 38.9% in November which is more than any of the brands you've listed above except the hopeless Chrysler. Some perspective...
For comparison, here's model's comparable to the TL. The TL took a much smaller hit.
.............Nov '08...Nov '07
3 Series....6,645...11,579....-42.6%
5 Series....2,927....4,617....-36.6%
C-Class.....4,422....6,920....-36.1%
E-Class.....2,264....4,464....-49.3%
ES...........4,116....5,902....-30.3%
GS...........721.......2,205....-67.3%
A4...........3,304.....4,883....-32.3%
A6...........717.......1,098.....-34.7%
And no, Chrysler isn't the only brand down more than Acura...
Try at least these 7 companies that are down more...
Oh look, Porsche and Mercedes suck more than Acura!
How's that for perspective?
Porsche -48.2%
Chrysler -47.1%
Suzuki -46.3%
Nissan -42.2%
GM -41.3%
Hyundai -39.7%
Mercedes -39.2%
12-03-08, 08:41 PM
#104
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Holy crap,we are talking about a ball joint issue that is not a flaw, but a part that gets worn and does need replacing. You guys do realize when a car adds mileage, parts do wear out. I had no issues paying to replace my ball joints and didn't bish and moan about it.
Ball joints are not failing at 5k or 20k miles. Its when the car gets around 100k miles or more. Its not like the 3GS has a ball joint problem (that we are aware of).
In comparison we are very well aware of the Honda/Acura tranny issue. The tranny can have 3k miles or 100k, you never know when it will go out. Its a very widespread problem..
Apples to damn Oranges.
If you want to bish about Lexus, at least stick to the tranny flare issue. However, tranny failure>flare.
Another issue Acura is having is unknowledgable buyers buying used TLs/CLs etc thinking its an "Acura" and its a reliable car. THey don't know its made in Ohio with the build quality of a tissue (2nd gens). Trannys are failing on people buying these cars at auctions, used car lots etc and they are just ASSED OUT b/c Acura dealers do not want to waste their time on a car that they didn't sell. Once these cars have over 100k, Acura dealers want nothing to do with them.
You are missing a lot here. For one the Tl didn't take much of a hit on paper b/c last year it was in the last year of a model cycle, thus they didn't produce as many to sell in the first place.
Secondly, November sales still include the 08 TLs and we have no idea how many are left. IN reading, it seems they are flying off lots compared to 09 TLs.
Sure the economy has something to do with its sales down but its still an ALL NEW MODEL. Its more expensive than the last one and a helluva a lot uglier. They better roll out a lease deal SOON.
You do realize Lexus CARS sold more than Acura as a whole.
Ball joints are not failing at 5k or 20k miles. Its when the car gets around 100k miles or more. Its not like the 3GS has a ball joint problem (that we are aware of).
In comparison we are very well aware of the Honda/Acura tranny issue. The tranny can have 3k miles or 100k, you never know when it will go out. Its a very widespread problem..
Apples to damn Oranges.
If you want to bish about Lexus, at least stick to the tranny flare issue. However, tranny failure>flare.
Another issue Acura is having is unknowledgable buyers buying used TLs/CLs etc thinking its an "Acura" and its a reliable car. THey don't know its made in Ohio with the build quality of a tissue (2nd gens). Trannys are failing on people buying these cars at auctions, used car lots etc and they are just ASSED OUT b/c Acura dealers do not want to waste their time on a car that they didn't sell. Once these cars have over 100k, Acura dealers want nothing to do with them.
I got your point exactly. But you're automatically assuming that a redesigned model suddenly spikes in sales. That's not always the case even with a well received redesign. Even the hyped up redesigned Honda Fit is down from last year's 7 year old Fit. Plus, the '08 TL was still selling like a fresh model because of it's timeless well liked design.
For comparison, here's model's comparable to the TL. The TL took a much smaller hit.
.............Nov '08...Nov '07
3 Series....6,645...11,579....-42.6%
5 Series....2,927....4,617....-36.6%
C-Class.....4,422....6,920....-36.1%
E-Class.....2,264....4,464....-49.3%
ES...........4,116....5,902....-30.3%
GS...........721.......2,205....-67.3%
A4...........3,304.....4,883....-32.3%
A6...........717.......1,098.....-34.7%
And no, Chrysler isn't the only brand down more than Acura...
Try at least these 7 companies that are down more...
Oh look, Porsche and Mercedes suck more than Acura!
How's that for perspective?
Porsche -48.2%
Chrysler -47.1%
Suzuki -46.3%
Nissan -42.2%
GM -41.3%
Hyundai -39.7%
Mercedes -39.2%
For comparison, here's model's comparable to the TL. The TL took a much smaller hit.
.............Nov '08...Nov '07
3 Series....6,645...11,579....-42.6%
5 Series....2,927....4,617....-36.6%
C-Class.....4,422....6,920....-36.1%
E-Class.....2,264....4,464....-49.3%
ES...........4,116....5,902....-30.3%
GS...........721.......2,205....-67.3%
A4...........3,304.....4,883....-32.3%
A6...........717.......1,098.....-34.7%
And no, Chrysler isn't the only brand down more than Acura...
Try at least these 7 companies that are down more...
Oh look, Porsche and Mercedes suck more than Acura!
How's that for perspective?
Porsche -48.2%
Chrysler -47.1%
Suzuki -46.3%
Nissan -42.2%
GM -41.3%
Hyundai -39.7%
Mercedes -39.2%
Secondly, November sales still include the 08 TLs and we have no idea how many are left. IN reading, it seems they are flying off lots compared to 09 TLs.
Sure the economy has something to do with its sales down but its still an ALL NEW MODEL. Its more expensive than the last one and a helluva a lot uglier. They better roll out a lease deal SOON.
You do realize Lexus CARS sold more than Acura as a whole.
12-03-08, 08:43 PM
#105
I got your point exactly. But you're automatically assuming that a redesigned model suddenly spikes in sales. That's not always the case even with a well received redesign. Even the hyped up redesigned Honda Fit is down from last year's 7 year old Fit. Plus, the '08 TL was still selling like a fresh model because of it's timeless well liked design.
The '09 redesigned TL SUCKS and did not live up to the level of expectation set by its highly popular predecessor.
Is every model from every make down across the board? No. As matter of fact, Volvo's S80, somewhat a competitor to the TL, is up 10.5% in November. The TL is a brand spanking new model and down 22% in its second month on sale is unacceptable in any kind of economic condition no matter how you spin it.
Same goes to the new A4.