2009 Car & Driver Lightning Lap
09-27-08, 12:09 PM
#47
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Mosler MT900S- 2:45.9 (2008)
Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR- 2:48.6 (2008)
Ferrari F430 Scuderia- 2:54.6 (2008)
Nissan GT-R- 2:55.6 (2008)
Chevrolet Corvette Z06- 2:58.2 (2007)
Ford GT- 3:00.7 (2006)
Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06- 3:01.1 (2006)
Chevrolet Corvette Z51- 3:01.2 (2008)
Dodge Viper SRT10- 3:01.6 (2006)
Porsche 911 GT3- 3:01.8 (2007)
Chevrolet Corvette C6- 3:03.6 (2007)
Cadillac CTS-V- 3:04.0 (2008)
Lotus Exige S- 3:04.5 (2007)
Audi R8- 3:04.6 (2007)
BMW M3- 3:05.6 (2008)
Porsche 997 Turbo- 3:05.8 (2007)
Ford Shelby GT500- 3:05.9 (2007)
Mercedes Benz C63 AMG- 3:06.5 (2008)
Lotus Elise- 3:09.2 (2006)
Chevy Corvette C6- 3:09.3 (2006)
Porsche Cayman S- 3:09.5 (2006)
BMW M6- 3:10.0 (2006)
BMW 335i Coupe- 3:10.5 (2007)
Ford Shelby GT500 3:11.0 (2006) [ECU issues slowed car]
Audi RS4- 3:11.2 (2007)
BMW Z4 M- 3:11.7 (2007)
Nissan 350Z Track 3:12.5 (2006)
Chevrolet Cobalt SS Turbocharged 3:13.0 (2008)
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X MR SSTT (semi-auto)- 3:13.3 (2008)
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR- 3:13.5 (2006)
BMW 135i (steptronic automatic)- 3:13.7 (2008)
Lexus IS F- 3:14.0 (2008)
Audi S5- 3:14.6 (2008)
Honda S2000 CR- 3:15.0 (2008)
Pontiac Solstice GXP- 3:15.7 (2007)
Mazda Speed 3- 3:16.0 (2007)
Dodge Challenger SRT8- 3:16.3 (2008)
Lotus Elise SC- 3:16.6 (2008) [WTF happened???]
Infiniti G37 Sport- 3:17.5 (2008)
Dodge Charger SRT8- 3:18.2 (2006)
Subaru Impreza WRX STI- 3:19.0 (2008)
Mazda RX-8- 3:19.0 (2006)
Chevy Cobalt SS (Supercharged)- 3:20.6 (2006)
Dodge Caliber SRT4- 3:20.8 (2008)
Ford Mustang GT- 3:20.9 (2006)
Volkswagen R32- 3:21.8 (2008)
Mini Cooper S (Turbo)- 3:22.9 (2007)
Honda Civic Mugen Si- 3:24.8 (2008)
Volkswagen GTI- 3:25.1 (2006)
Honda Civic Si- 3:26.5 (2006)
Volvo C30 T5 Version 2.0- 3:26.6 (2008)
Mazda MX-5- 3:29.3 (2006)
Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR- 2:48.6 (2008)
Ferrari F430 Scuderia- 2:54.6 (2008)
Nissan GT-R- 2:55.6 (2008)
Chevrolet Corvette Z06- 2:58.2 (2007)
Ford GT- 3:00.7 (2006)
Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06- 3:01.1 (2006)
Chevrolet Corvette Z51- 3:01.2 (2008)
Dodge Viper SRT10- 3:01.6 (2006)
Porsche 911 GT3- 3:01.8 (2007)
Chevrolet Corvette C6- 3:03.6 (2007)
Cadillac CTS-V- 3:04.0 (2008)
Lotus Exige S- 3:04.5 (2007)
Audi R8- 3:04.6 (2007)
BMW M3- 3:05.6 (2008)
Porsche 997 Turbo- 3:05.8 (2007)
Ford Shelby GT500- 3:05.9 (2007)
Mercedes Benz C63 AMG- 3:06.5 (2008)
Lotus Elise- 3:09.2 (2006)
Chevy Corvette C6- 3:09.3 (2006)
Porsche Cayman S- 3:09.5 (2006)
BMW M6- 3:10.0 (2006)
BMW 335i Coupe- 3:10.5 (2007)
Ford Shelby GT500 3:11.0 (2006) [ECU issues slowed car]
Audi RS4- 3:11.2 (2007)
BMW Z4 M- 3:11.7 (2007)
Nissan 350Z Track 3:12.5 (2006)
Chevrolet Cobalt SS Turbocharged 3:13.0 (2008)
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X MR SSTT (semi-auto)- 3:13.3 (2008)
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR- 3:13.5 (2006)
BMW 135i (steptronic automatic)- 3:13.7 (2008)
Lexus IS F- 3:14.0 (2008)
Audi S5- 3:14.6 (2008)
Honda S2000 CR- 3:15.0 (2008)
Pontiac Solstice GXP- 3:15.7 (2007)
Mazda Speed 3- 3:16.0 (2007)
Dodge Challenger SRT8- 3:16.3 (2008)
Lotus Elise SC- 3:16.6 (2008) [WTF happened???]
Infiniti G37 Sport- 3:17.5 (2008)
Dodge Charger SRT8- 3:18.2 (2006)
Subaru Impreza WRX STI- 3:19.0 (2008)
Mazda RX-8- 3:19.0 (2006)
Chevy Cobalt SS (Supercharged)- 3:20.6 (2006)
Dodge Caliber SRT4- 3:20.8 (2008)
Ford Mustang GT- 3:20.9 (2006)
Volkswagen R32- 3:21.8 (2008)
Mini Cooper S (Turbo)- 3:22.9 (2007)
Honda Civic Mugen Si- 3:24.8 (2008)
Volkswagen GTI- 3:25.1 (2006)
Honda Civic Si- 3:26.5 (2006)
Volvo C30 T5 Version 2.0- 3:26.6 (2008)
Mazda MX-5- 3:29.3 (2006)
Conditions & other varibles come into factor when people start bench racing track times of two comletely independant tests (06/07/08).
.
09-27-08, 12:15 PM
#48
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Again, there's no fair way to compare the two when they were two completely independant tests.
This is what a typical magazine/bench racer would assume. The 350Z is faster, period. Which is obviously not using logic since there could have been a lot of differences in conditions between a 2 year difference test
See my above post. Bench racing FTL
Only the 2008 vs 2008, 2007 vs 2007, & 2006 vs 2006 comparisons are fair, since they were conducted at the same time. Just look at the Z06 as an example: they were tested out twice (06 & 07), and the same exact has a 3 second difference.
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This is what a typical magazine/bench racer would assume. The 350Z is faster, period. Which is obviously not using logic since there could have been a lot of differences in conditions between a 2 year difference test
See my above post. Bench racing FTL
Only the 2008 vs 2008, 2007 vs 2007, & 2006 vs 2006 comparisons are fair, since they were conducted at the same time. Just look at the Z06 as an example: they were tested out twice (06 & 07), and the same exact has a 3 second difference.
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Last edited by S8B; 09-27-08 at 12:19 PM.
09-27-08, 12:41 PM
#49
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Comments in blue
The TL beat the IS in one test and it is suddenly the better track car?
What is a better track car? Is it one that has better lap time like this one? or one that has communicative chasis, responsive steering and etc that inspires driver confidence where you just point and it goes there? I've driven the IS350 on the roadcourse but not with the TL-S so honestly I don't know which of these two is a better track car. But I do know this... give me the slow a$$ Miata... That my friend is a better track car.
I don't think so. Its AMAZING how many Honda/Acura guys point out this one test and fail to mention every other single review.
Wow.
It's not about the review where which one is more comfortable, which has better interior, better nav...and etc. It's all about the numbers thus the main purpose of the Lighting Lap. Gather all these cars together, throw them on the track, record the best time and rank them accordingly. This one has no TL-S in it so that was my best educated guess as to where I would rank it.
If you know of any other comparisions of the TL-S vs IS350 on the roadcourse... Please share the time. I am looking forward to seeing it.
The FUNNIER part is while we have tons of guys here taking their IS to the roadcourse, I don't recall any TL-S owners doing the same.
I can't keep track of how many autox and track events I attended where I saw, trucks, station wagons, vans... and vehicles that have no business what so ever on a race track but the owners took them out there regardless... What does this prove? NOTHING...NADA... They were just out there having fun just like anyone else.
What is a better track car? Is it one that has better lap time like this one? or one that has communicative chasis, responsive steering and etc that inspires driver confidence where you just point and it goes there? I've driven the IS350 on the roadcourse but not with the TL-S so honestly I don't know which of these two is a better track car. But I do know this... give me the slow a$$ Miata... That my friend is a better track car.
I don't think so. Its AMAZING how many Honda/Acura guys point out this one test and fail to mention every other single review.
Wow.
It's not about the review where which one is more comfortable, which has better interior, better nav...and etc. It's all about the numbers thus the main purpose of the Lighting Lap. Gather all these cars together, throw them on the track, record the best time and rank them accordingly. This one has no TL-S in it so that was my best educated guess as to where I would rank it.
If you know of any other comparisions of the TL-S vs IS350 on the roadcourse... Please share the time. I am looking forward to seeing it.
The FUNNIER part is while we have tons of guys here taking their IS to the roadcourse, I don't recall any TL-S owners doing the same.
I can't keep track of how many autox and track events I attended where I saw, trucks, station wagons, vans... and vehicles that have no business what so ever on a race track but the owners took them out there regardless... What does this prove? NOTHING...NADA... They were just out there having fun just like anyone else.
09-27-08, 04:11 PM
#50
Pole Position
But yeah, different years, potentially different drivers, weather conditions etc....
I must say that after watching many side by side comparisons the IS-F time is a bit surprising. Could have been the same effect as the Z06 with the lack of confidence really eroding a drivers ability to get the most out of it, had Bridgestones instead of Michelin, or simply be that much slower. *shrug* It would be cool to see actual video of all the runs. I miss C&D TV.
09-28-08, 03:22 PM
#51
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
While there may be some differences between 2006/7/8 tests due to weather, drivers, etc... some of it can also be explained by the cars themselves. In this case the 135i had an automatic, 335i had a manual, and as mentioned the Z06 saw some fairly significant chassis tweaks between those years to make it more predictable at the limits of handling.
09-28-08, 07:13 PM
#52
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While there may be some differences between 2006/7/8 tests due to weather, drivers, etc... some of it can also be explained by the cars themselves. In this case the 135i had an automatic, 335i had a manual, and as mentioned the Z06 saw some fairly significant chassis tweaks between those years to make it more predictable at the limits of handling.
But my point was just the fact that 95% of the time, you can never fairly compare two completely independant tests that are years apart.
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09-28-08, 09:06 PM
#53
Lexus Test Driver
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As an owner of both cars, I can tell you that stock to stock, a 350z cannot, does not, and will not own an IS-F, on the street or on the track. They are not in the same class. You are clearly just fanning the flames here.
Anyways, let's put it this way. If all the cars ran expected lap times, then this thread wouldn't really exist, right? Magazines are a dying business, so they've been trying lately to put more edgy or unexpected content to generate buzz and interest (M3 vs GT-R comparison anyone?). Honestly, I wouldn't care if the IS-F was slower than expected, but almost 10 seconds off the m3/c63? I know Lexus owners are generally more laid back and not as crazy about bench racing, but come on now, we are not idiots here. The only way I can see that happening is if they left traction control on and ran the car in snow mode. Seriously.
Anyways, let's put it this way. If all the cars ran expected lap times, then this thread wouldn't really exist, right? Magazines are a dying business, so they've been trying lately to put more edgy or unexpected content to generate buzz and interest (M3 vs GT-R comparison anyone?). Honestly, I wouldn't care if the IS-F was slower than expected, but almost 10 seconds off the m3/c63? I know Lexus owners are generally more laid back and not as crazy about bench racing, but come on now, we are not idiots here. The only way I can see that happening is if they left traction control on and ran the car in snow mode. Seriously.
09-29-08, 10:30 AM
#54
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In short, I find the suggestion C&D purposely drove the IS-F slower to generate buzz sort of laughable. Unless you were implying something else?
09-29-08, 11:03 AM
#56
I believe I can tribute this quote to Bill Parcell. "You are what your record says you are" and in the case of cars on track, "You are what your lap time says you are" IS-F was 8.4 seconds slower than M3 and 7.5 seconds slower than C63 on the same day by same group of drivers which are the direct competition. Frankly after seeing IS-F at Limerock not being able to hold off E46 M3 and then getting passed by E46 thru big bend and esses, I would say the drivers from C&D did far better than expected being only 8 seconds behind E92 M3. And no, E46 was not driven by Tony Kanaan.
Last edited by kt22cliff; 09-29-08 at 11:07 AM.
09-29-08, 04:57 PM
#58
The vids of this test can be seen here
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...feature?cid=95
Click on "video" on the photo...
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...feature?cid=95
Click on "video" on the photo...
09-29-08, 05:13 PM
#59
This is one test of many and to come to a final conclusion about the performance of the IS-F here is just ridiculous. Those of us with IS-F's know the capabilities of this car better than any of the rest of you in this thread who drive something else and never got behind the wheel of the IS-F. There is definitely something fishy about the results here, but we have to take note and just move on and stop with the bickering.
09-29-08, 05:29 PM
#60
Pole Position
Just an overview over at C&D right now. Sounds like they will trickle out the videos to keep us coming back to their site. Should be interesting to watch and listen to.