Insideline: GS350 vs. Genesis 4.6
08-18-08, 08:44 PM
#46
Pole Position
Final Rankings
Item Weight Genesis V8 GS 350
Performance 20% 96.8 96.7
Item Weight Genesis V8 GS 350
Performance 20% 96.8 96.7
According to our scales, the GS 350 weighs in 320 pounds less than the Genesis and that helped it score a 5.7-second 0-60-mph time and run through the quarter-mile in 14.0 seconds at 99.5 mph. The Genesis, despite its larger, more powerful V8, was slower, completing those same feats in 5.9 seconds and 14.1 seconds at 101 mph.
08-18-08, 09:02 PM
#47
Lexus Test Driver
Honestly.......Im not sure why so many people are hating on the Genesis. 
From the video and pics, it looks more EXPENSIVE and Luxurious than the GS.
The GS imo is the BETTER car bec of its superior engineering and attention to detail......But to say that the Genesis doesnt belong in the review is foolish.
Lexus needs to step up their game in a big way, besides their limited hybrid powertrains, they have little else that separates them from the competition.
From the video and pics, it looks more EXPENSIVE and Luxurious than the GS.
The GS imo is the BETTER car bec of its superior engineering and attention to detail......But to say that the Genesis doesnt belong in the review is foolish.
Lexus needs to step up their game in a big way, besides their limited hybrid powertrains, they have little else that separates them from the competition.
08-19-08, 12:52 AM
#50
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Lexus needs to step up their game in a big way, besides their limited hybrid powertrains, they have little else that separates them from the competition
IMO..The Genesis is NOT a luxury car. It is more on the levels of a "Premium" full size sedan or a "entry" level sedan. Very much in the same class as the Toyota Avalon or perhaps Buick Lucerne IMO except for the RWD and 4.6 (3.5 avalon is actually faster than the 4.6)..
I did not have a chance to drive it but one thing it does establish very clearly is that the gap between $30k cars and $45k cars is very very narrow. Exterior fit and finish, panel gaps, design, materials, interior design, function demonstrate that mainstream cars will become very luxurious and will have some high end functions if they don't already
Car companies like Lexus and Toyota cannot sell on reliability alone. They will need more...and I think they know it.
Inside the materials are about the same as that of a ES350 if not better. The design is very nice and well thought out. There is distinct thud when closing the doors and feels lexus quiet one the doors are closed. The power seats move in silence and the controls are very well thought out. The dash buttons remind me of how the Avalon is layed out. I expect this now of all cars except for the really cheap ones.
Overall after seeing the Genesis in person....It has made me realize that it is not a luxury car (at least the interior) as the materials once reserved for a Lexus can be now found on a Hyundai...Nissan, Cadillac etc.
The Genesis will help make cars under $45k better because cars like the next gen Camry, Avalon, Altima, Acura brand all have seriously up the ante in the interior materials...The next gen ES will have to be seriously re thought.
Will it sell? Not to sure..I don't think it will sell all that well at all...its trying to be a luxury car when in fact it is a full size "premium" sedan or perhaps an "entry" level sedan.
It won't convince any well to do buyers of Mercedes or Lexus to switch over. The way it tags genesis on the rear is not luxury at all....at least copy the way Avalon is displayed on the trunk.
I think hyundai is making a very big mistake comparing the Genesis to the GS...it really competes against the Avalon and maybe the ES..
08-19-08, 07:17 AM
#51
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Don't think so. Avalon and ES are FWD V6 sedans which top out at 36-40K. Genesis is a RWD V8 sedan which tops out at on the low 40s. I think the GS is a valid comparison. But at the same time, if you compare the Genesis to the GS you must also compare it to the Infiniti M, the BMW 5, the Mercedes E-class and the Audi A6. Somehow when you include the whole company in the mix the comparison seems less credible.
08-19-08, 07:20 AM
#52
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08-19-08, 07:22 AM
#53
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08-19-08, 07:25 AM
#54
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It depends how you want to look at it. The Genesis can be seen as car for GS/M/E shoppers to save money on, or as a car for ES/G/C shoppers to spend about the same amount of money on but get more for their money.
I suspect it'll be a little bit of both.
The only questionable bit of Edmunds' comparison was the V6 GS to the V8 Genesis. I think I'd have rather seen V6 to V6 but I suspect they didn't want to do this since they had already reviewed the V6 genesis and wanted more new/fresh info out there on the alternative engine version of the car. They could have done the GS460 in comparison but then that would have made the price differential even more dramatic. I think the wider the price gap the harder it would be to really quantify the differences in the cars vs the price savings. I also think it would have hurt the GS' case more than help it in the comparison. But once again.. I don't think there's an absolute right way to do it... just the way they did decide to do it and the way they didn't. If they'd done V8 Genesis vs GS460 then other people would be complaining that they'd rather see the Genesis compared moreso to an equipment level that they could buy for a more similar amount of money. The GS460 is around 35% more expensive than the V8 Genesis... that's a pretty huge gap.
I suspect it'll be a little bit of both.
The only questionable bit of Edmunds' comparison was the V6 GS to the V8 Genesis. I think I'd have rather seen V6 to V6 but I suspect they didn't want to do this since they had already reviewed the V6 genesis and wanted more new/fresh info out there on the alternative engine version of the car. They could have done the GS460 in comparison but then that would have made the price differential even more dramatic. I think the wider the price gap the harder it would be to really quantify the differences in the cars vs the price savings. I also think it would have hurt the GS' case more than help it in the comparison. But once again.. I don't think there's an absolute right way to do it... just the way they did decide to do it and the way they didn't. If they'd done V8 Genesis vs GS460 then other people would be complaining that they'd rather see the Genesis compared moreso to an equipment level that they could buy for a more similar amount of money. The GS460 is around 35% more expensive than the V8 Genesis... that's a pretty huge gap.
08-19-08, 07:53 AM
#55
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The review also said the Genesis is:
- bigger
- WAY cheaper than the GS350 and even cheaper than an ES350
- V8 vs. V6
- less body roll and slightly better overall handling
- no horrible run flats
Selected quotes:
Large rear door openings and more generous proportions, thanks to its longer wheelbase, make the Genesis' rear seat the better of the two.
The Genesis has a huge trunk with 15.9 cubic feet of space, 3 cubic feet more than the trunk in the Lexus.
On the other hand, only the Genesis offers iPod integration. Frankly, it's a slow, clumsy integration that seems to spend more time hunting for tracks than actually playing them, but it's more useful than the cassette deck in the Lexus.
the Lexus' body rolls more through corners
a tremendous highway ride that's slightly better controlled than the GS 350's.
The Hyundai stuck a bit better on the skid pad (0.83 vs. 0.81g)
The Genesis has a huge trunk with 15.9 cubic feet of space, 3 cubic feet more than the trunk in the Lexus.
On the other hand, only the Genesis offers iPod integration. Frankly, it's a slow, clumsy integration that seems to spend more time hunting for tracks than actually playing them, but it's more useful than the cassette deck in the Lexus.
the Lexus' body rolls more through corners
a tremendous highway ride that's slightly better controlled than the GS 350's.
The Hyundai stuck a bit better on the skid pad (0.83 vs. 0.81g)
Helped greatly by its huge price advantage, the Hyundai Genesis edges out the Lexus GS 350 by a cumulative score of 68.5 to 66.3. It just doesn't get closer than that.
But remember, Inside Line's algorithms and criteria don't control for the intangible of prestige. And it could well be that in this status-conscious market segment, paying extra money for that Lexus badge may be worth it to a lot of buyers. After all, they didn't work hard all their lives to retire, take out a reverse mortgage and drive a Hyundai.
08-19-08, 08:11 AM
#56
I keep saying this. The Genesis does have its shortcomings, but so do most cars out today. The fact that there are only a few nick pick items to majorly complain about on Hyundai's first attempt at a luxury car is saying a lot. It may not sway many pure luxury car buyers away from their brand right now, but perhaps in the 2nd generation or 3rd generation they will be serious contenders as they are pretty serious as it is today with their first Genesis introduction. I personally would still choose a Lexus GS over this the Genesis, but I'd take the Genesis over a Lexus ES350 any day.
08-19-08, 09:57 AM
#58
Lexus Champion
The Genesis in V6 and V8 forms will no doubt take some sales from a wide variety of cars. How successful the price/value propsition is, remains to be seen.
Azera hasn't done that well. YTD sales in this soft market = ES350 38,700 sold vs. Azera @ 12,200 sold. Vera Cruz advertises vs. RX and YTD on both = RX 49,600 and Vera Cruz 7,048.
Genesis is a little different and interesting, but I doubt it will revolutionize things in that segment. It will take sales from a number of brands/models though.
Azera hasn't done that well. YTD sales in this soft market = ES350 38,700 sold vs. Azera @ 12,200 sold. Vera Cruz advertises vs. RX and YTD on both = RX 49,600 and Vera Cruz 7,048.
Genesis is a little different and interesting, but I doubt it will revolutionize things in that segment. It will take sales from a number of brands/models though.
08-19-08, 10:49 AM
#59
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Don't think so. Avalon and ES are FWD V6 sedans which top out at 36-40K. Genesis is a RWD V8 sedan which tops out at on the low 40s. I think the GS is a valid comparison. But at the same time, if you compare the Genesis to the GS you must also compare it to the Infiniti M, the BMW 5, the Mercedes E-class and the Audi A6. Somehow when you include the whole company in the mix the comparison seems less credible.
MSRP of the Avalon, ES, and Genesis all start within $1k-$2k of each other.
Avalon Limited starts at $34k
Genesis v6 starts at $32k
Es350 starts at $34k
RWD aside. The Avalon out performs the v8 from 0-60 even though it has over 100 less hp. Both Avalon and Genesis are about the identical in dimensions.
Avalon and Genesis compare very well.
1. Both are flagships of their brands
2. Both are about identical in size.
3. Both have similar styled interiors
4. Both have premium amentities yet do not have a premium nameplate
5. Both are solid people movers.
After seeing the Genesis in person. The car lacks elegance like the GS...but it looks like a flagship just like the Avalon is for Toyota.
The Genesis does have a v8 and rwd but the v8 does not perform at luxury car levels as the GS350 spanked the 4.6.
08-19-08, 11:25 AM
#60
The Genesis is a little overpriced for a full size premium car. I don't think its a luxury car at all.
MSRP of the Avalon, ES, and Genesis all start within $1k-$2k of each other.
Avalon Limited starts at $34k
Genesis v6 starts at $32k
Es350 starts at $34k
RWD aside. The Avalon out performs the v8 from 0-60 even though it has over 100 less hp. Both Avalon and Genesis are about the identical in dimensions.
Avalon and Genesis compare very well.
1. Both are flagships of their brands
2. Both are about identical in size.
3. Both have similar styled interiors
4. Both have premium amentities yet do not have a premium nameplate
5. Both are solid people movers.
After seeing the Genesis in person. The car lacks elegance like the GS...but it looks like a flagship just like the Avalon is for Toyota.
The Genesis does have a v8 and rwd but the v8 does not perform at luxury car levels as the GS350 spanked the 4.6.
MSRP of the Avalon, ES, and Genesis all start within $1k-$2k of each other.
Avalon Limited starts at $34k
Genesis v6 starts at $32k
Es350 starts at $34k
RWD aside. The Avalon out performs the v8 from 0-60 even though it has over 100 less hp. Both Avalon and Genesis are about the identical in dimensions.
Avalon and Genesis compare very well.
1. Both are flagships of their brands
2. Both are about identical in size.
3. Both have similar styled interiors
4. Both have premium amentities yet do not have a premium nameplate
5. Both are solid people movers.
After seeing the Genesis in person. The car lacks elegance like the GS...but it looks like a flagship just like the Avalon is for Toyota.
The Genesis does have a v8 and rwd but the v8 does not perform at luxury car levels as the GS350 spanked the 4.6.
Since when did Avalons do 0-60 under 6 seconds? I don't think so. Get your facts straight. Believe it or not being a RWD has a huge advantage. I used to drive honda/Acura and other FWD cars and now both of my cars are RWD (c230 and 300ZX). I would NEVER go back to FWD.
Now I've seen a couple of them on the road recently. Definitely turns heads. But as some of you mentioned Genesis is not a Lexus. Lexus has my respect for what it is. Hyundai has my respect as well... remember when Hyundai came so close to abandoning the US market? Where are they now? They're now what 5th largest auto maker in the world??(don't quote me on this one though)