View Poll Results: What type of vehicle should Lexus create next?
2-Seater Roadster (similar to the Z4 or SLK)
27
32.53%
Compact SUV/Crossover (similar to X3 or EX35)
5
6.02%
Sport Wagon (similar to 3-Series Wagon or V70)
9
10.84%
Luxury Sport Coupe (similar to CL-Class)
32
38.55%
Other (please describe...)
3
3.61%
Dedicated Fuel-Saving Hybrid
7
8.43%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll
What is missing in Lexus' model line-up?
05-09-08, 06:37 PM
#31
People at the Lexus corporate should really read this, or their sales is gonna continue to stagnate.
I agree with all of your comments.
Lexus has produced cars that sell like hotcakes. I think that with the stagnant sales of the SC430, they are quite apprehensive with selling luxury coupes, especially since they do not have full comprehension of performance oriented handling, braking, and when to ease on electronic nannies.
Lexus is keeping it safe with reliable sedans and excellent SUVs. But safe does not always sell.
It's good that Lexus is getting some fresh gossip with the LF-A, but I think that a more approachable vehicle is more profitable. With that said, Lexus really needs to bring out an IS350 coupe/convertible, a redesigned SC460, and the LF-A. A two-seater roadster would be interesting, but non-profitable.
05-09-08, 07:13 PM
#32
Playing it too safe can be risky, and IMO Lexus needs new product to sustain its popularity and growth. There are times when Lexus has taken a risk. The original LS 400 was a big risk, a billion dollar+ investment. First year sales were close but barely missed expectations, but after that they made Lexus the #1 import. Also the RX was also somewhat of a risk, it was the first luxury crossover on the market. It ended up paying off in spades.
I'm not sure if they are afraid of coupes because of the SC 430, but it's possible that they are taking a different approach. What I do know is that the first gen SC 300/400 showed that Lexus coupes, like most other coupes, have a more limited shelf life in terms of sales then sedans/SUVs. First 2 years are great then it settles down. Mazda experienced that with the current RX-8. With the drops they apparently experienced, Toyota stopped making the Supra and Celica.
The SC 430 came out as a more limited volume vehicle, with a higher price, smaller body, convertible style, etc. There was no lower-priced six-cylinder option. They called it the "Jewel of Lexus" and it began with an LF-A halo-type aura (in lesser degree) without entering supercar territory. But it remains a low volume vehicle.
Lexus U.S. 1SC production/sales data:
Lexus U.S. 2SC sales data:
I'm guessing the SC line, if continuing, will remain that way--exclusive, expensive, and lower-volume. However, the IS coupe/convertible line is potentially a different story. While it is unrealistic to expect that any coupe will differ in a major way from this general trend of a faster drop-off than some other vehicles, maybe it will be a 'softer' difference. OTOH the positioning of IS/SC/LF-A lineups are interesting.
I'm not sure if they are afraid of coupes because of the SC 430, but it's possible that they are taking a different approach. What I do know is that the first gen SC 300/400 showed that Lexus coupes, like most other coupes, have a more limited shelf life in terms of sales then sedans/SUVs. First 2 years are great then it settles down. Mazda experienced that with the current RX-8. With the drops they apparently experienced, Toyota stopped making the Supra and Celica.
The SC 430 came out as a more limited volume vehicle, with a higher price, smaller body, convertible style, etc. There was no lower-priced six-cylinder option. They called it the "Jewel of Lexus" and it began with an LF-A halo-type aura (in lesser degree) without entering supercar territory. But it remains a low volume vehicle.
Lexus U.S. 1SC production/sales data:
Code:
SC 1992 27,887 SC 1993 16,755 SC 1994 5,880 SC 1995 15,872 SC 1996 4,763 SC 1997 4,890 SC 1998 2,771 SC 1999 2,815 SC 2000 905
Code:
SC 2001 14,326 SC 2002 14,462 SC 2003 10,298 SC 2004 9,708 SC 2005 8,360 SC 2006 5,847 SC 2007 3,927
Last edited by encore888; 05-09-08 at 07:21 PM.
05-09-08, 09:27 PM
#33
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05-09-08, 09:42 PM
#34
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The LS is a Lexus through and through, so are the new GS/IS, and last I checked the LS less expensive than the S/7. I agree however that there is a need to inject more excitement, even though the detractors will always deride Lexus as 'just a Toyota' no matter what. I am definitely looking for coupes from Lexus...wasn't that a thread title a while back ("we need coupes")?
the GS is nice but needs a true sports package, I love the performance aspect of the 5 series, just a drivers car from the minute you leave the dealer, love the body style of the GSIS, don't know how to describe this car except it's the car no body looks at, and everybody I know who has a 250 wants a 3 series, I know 5 people who picked up a 3 series and never looked at the IS, all 328's
The LX, WTH it that thing, (including new Land Cruiser) falls inline with the new Sequoia, partly why Im starting to hate Toyota, they can make these barges but not the cars everyone in this thread wants
05-10-08, 10:03 AM
#37
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Thats easy more manual options, I'd go back to Lexus if they offered more stick shifts. How do they claim they have an M3 fighter in the IS-F if they don't offer a stick, madness.
SC, Sport Coupe, no stick, no thanks. The IS250 is the only stick available I know of.
SC, Sport Coupe, no stick, no thanks. The IS250 is the only stick available I know of.
05-10-08, 10:31 AM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
1.) As others have said... hurry and bring the LFA into production to serve as brand Halo.
2.) REAL SPORT PACKAGES on IS, GS, SC, and LS. This means recalibrated steering, sport steering wheel, seats with a little extra side bolstering, wheel/tire package, subtle aero enhancements, slightly more aggressive suspension (nothing crazy) with better anti-roll capabilities. This is what BMW, MB, and Audi have.
3.) A roadster in the 40-50,0000 range. The LF-A will be a halo and unattainable by most. Give people something along the same idea they CAN step into. A competitor to SLK, Z4, TT, and Boxster.
4.) IS coupe and vert (this is coming). The coupe be differed from the sedan more than just simply subtracting 2 doors. It should have a unique design (like Infiniti G coupe vs. sedan..... NOT like the E46 BMW 3 series sedan vs coupe which essentially looked the same).
5.) SC: when this is redesigned... give it some sporting ability and some L-Finesse styling. Get rid of the organic egg-shell. Give us 2 engine options. Perhaps SC460 and limited production SC600h. They should take MB's lead on this. For those who want a top-end Lexus, give them the option of having the top end 600h powertrain in EITHER the large sedan or the convertible. MB does wonderfully allowing its customers, at the same price point, to chose: S550 or SL550; S600 or SL600.
6.) F-models: for GS, redesigned SC mentioned above, and LS. The LF-A will add to the performance credibility they had started with the IS-F. Run with the momentum and give people a reason to STAY with Lexus when they want high performance in a vehicle larger than the IS. Give the E63 and S63 a competitor.
7.) IS again: Hybrid model for the IS. The IS250 is severely underpowered for a performance sedan. Get rid of the IS250 and replace it with a hybrid based off same engine. If it had 230-240hp total output, it would go from low performance to medium performance (probably have a 0-60 of around 7.0) with the gas mileage of a hybrid.... this would be a winning combo. Those wanting high performance would still have the options of buying IS350 and IS-F.
8.) ES: car is beautiful on outside. Add some more wood to the interior. The previous generation had a more classy interior. Also, do an economical hybrid option here too. People in this class aren't as concerned with performance. Offer the 2.5L + electric motor hybrid I mentioned for the IS in this car. It would still provide ample acceleration for normal driving purposes with 240hp but it would have better gas mileage than the 350.
While a large coupe would be nice, this would not likely make the company much money. The CL coupe is not a profitable car for MB. In fact, many customers looking to buy the CL wind up getting the SL instead after they see how unusable the back seat is.
2.) REAL SPORT PACKAGES on IS, GS, SC, and LS. This means recalibrated steering, sport steering wheel, seats with a little extra side bolstering, wheel/tire package, subtle aero enhancements, slightly more aggressive suspension (nothing crazy) with better anti-roll capabilities. This is what BMW, MB, and Audi have.
3.) A roadster in the 40-50,0000 range. The LF-A will be a halo and unattainable by most. Give people something along the same idea they CAN step into. A competitor to SLK, Z4, TT, and Boxster.
4.) IS coupe and vert (this is coming). The coupe be differed from the sedan more than just simply subtracting 2 doors. It should have a unique design (like Infiniti G coupe vs. sedan..... NOT like the E46 BMW 3 series sedan vs coupe which essentially looked the same).
5.) SC: when this is redesigned... give it some sporting ability and some L-Finesse styling. Get rid of the organic egg-shell. Give us 2 engine options. Perhaps SC460 and limited production SC600h. They should take MB's lead on this. For those who want a top-end Lexus, give them the option of having the top end 600h powertrain in EITHER the large sedan or the convertible. MB does wonderfully allowing its customers, at the same price point, to chose: S550 or SL550; S600 or SL600.
6.) F-models: for GS, redesigned SC mentioned above, and LS. The LF-A will add to the performance credibility they had started with the IS-F. Run with the momentum and give people a reason to STAY with Lexus when they want high performance in a vehicle larger than the IS. Give the E63 and S63 a competitor.
7.) IS again: Hybrid model for the IS. The IS250 is severely underpowered for a performance sedan. Get rid of the IS250 and replace it with a hybrid based off same engine. If it had 230-240hp total output, it would go from low performance to medium performance (probably have a 0-60 of around 7.0) with the gas mileage of a hybrid.... this would be a winning combo. Those wanting high performance would still have the options of buying IS350 and IS-F.
8.) ES: car is beautiful on outside. Add some more wood to the interior. The previous generation had a more classy interior. Also, do an economical hybrid option here too. People in this class aren't as concerned with performance. Offer the 2.5L + electric motor hybrid I mentioned for the IS in this car. It would still provide ample acceleration for normal driving purposes with 240hp but it would have better gas mileage than the 350.
While a large coupe would be nice, this would not likely make the company much money. The CL coupe is not a profitable car for MB. In fact, many customers looking to buy the CL wind up getting the SL instead after they see how unusable the back seat is.
05-10-08, 02:21 PM
#39
^^^
Good points, I think it would be interesting to have 'real' sport packages on the sedans (perhaps the 'F-package'?). Definitely LF-A, IS coupe, SC redesign. I do think however that the IS coupe will look closer to the regular IS than the G35/37 difference. But I like the way the IS looks a lot so that's not such a bad thing.
More F-models, and hybrids such as the ES. I'm thinking though an IS 300 might be the coming answer to upgrading the IS 250. Finally, a roadster sounds like a good idea but I think that will take more time, for Lexus having the IS/SC/LF-A coupes/converts will be a large lineup expansion already. All in all though excellent possibilities!
Good points, I think it would be interesting to have 'real' sport packages on the sedans (perhaps the 'F-package'?). Definitely LF-A, IS coupe, SC redesign. I do think however that the IS coupe will look closer to the regular IS than the G35/37 difference. But I like the way the IS looks a lot so that's not such a bad thing.
More F-models, and hybrids such as the ES. I'm thinking though an IS 300 might be the coming answer to upgrading the IS 250. Finally, a roadster sounds like a good idea but I think that will take more time, for Lexus having the IS/SC/LF-A coupes/converts will be a large lineup expansion already. All in all though excellent possibilities!
05-11-08, 03:41 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
One thing it be nice to see an ES or IS wagon, I know people could get an RX instead.
Luxury sports coupe would be nice, hopefully the redesigned SC will compete against the CL.
One thing it be interesting to see an IS-F Wagon. Worst part it cost more then an RX probably :s
Luxury sports coupe would be nice, hopefully the redesigned SC will compete against the CL.
One thing it be interesting to see an IS-F Wagon. Worst part it cost more then an RX probably :s
Last edited by JessePS; 05-11-08 at 03:48 PM.
05-11-08, 07:01 PM
#44
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I thought Toyota/Lexus had the money to take some risks, they seem to take forever to make a strategic move, if the car business was the game battle ship Toyota would have sunk years ago
why does it seem like they wait for everyone else, right now Lexus seems like a Holiday dessert with no ice cream or cool whip
why does it seem like they wait for everyone else, right now Lexus seems like a Holiday dessert with no ice cream or cool whip
05-12-08, 06:42 AM
#45
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Examining Subaru sales for last month, the Outback was up 1% over last April. That doesn't suggest that people are embracing the wagon yet. However, the Tribeca was up 13% I think it was.