They bought Nissan

 

Toyota's hybrid tecnology can be used with any fuel source, including hydrogen fuel cell.

 

All the more reason, then, to get started ASAP. The longer we wait, the harder the job ultimately will be.

I strongly agree with the article. The obsession with hybrids is not only holding up the progress of other new technologies, but, to an extent, is also holding up the progress of existing ones like diesels.

 

Okay how about this. That article is 100% garbage. Hybrids are delaying other technologies? How about 500hp cars are delaying other technologies. How about the trillions of SUVs/crossovers getting 12 MPG are delaying other technologies.

Hyrbids ARE the answer now b/c hell, there is no VIABLE alternative. THere are no electric stations much anywhere. Where the hell do you go to fill up for hydrogen?

Toyota took a HUGE gamble with hybrids and has embarrassed everyone in the process who either didn't care of could not figure it out. How about CEOs are delaying other technologies. Remember when Ghosen said they are silly. Now he's trying to make them.

What the hell do they know? They own Renault and Nissan, I rest my case.

 

For all the hand wringing remember this cold hard fact: Dino oil will be supplying the overwhelming majority of fuel for the worlds vehicles for the next 50 years, at least. Hybrids, solar, fuel cell, bio-fuels and other novelties will not supplant more than a small fraction of gasoline/diesel engines for many, many decades. And whatever eventually comes out as the next breakthrough will probably be something not really envisioned today. Hybrids are just a 'feel good' exercise to assuage peoples misplaced guilt about 'global warming', which will be proven wrong in 10-15 years once the planet starts to cool again in its natural cycle. Then our kids and grandkids will look back and wonder how people could have been suckered into the global warming hoax.

 

Fuel cells are still at least 20 years away, blame the Prius.

The previous Jetta TDI cost as much as the Prius while achieving identical mileage as the Prius, blame the Prius. But to be fair, Toyota loses $10,000 per their halo car Prius while the Jetta TDI, like VW remains highly profitable.

Hybrids are slowing down development of diesels:

Diesels have been kicked out of California for poor emissions, blame the Prius.

GM has ceased building diesels they never built before, blame the Prius.

VW has been ignoring diesels, by obviously spending too much time and money on their non-existant hybrids. Blame the Prius.

Daimler and BMW have wasted too much time and money by copying GM's dual-mode hybrid system. Blame the Prius.

Renault and Peugot which cannot compete on the global market lack the ability to build a hybrid. Blame the Prius.

plug-in hybirds + CARB + CAFE = massive subsidies for the European automotive industry.

***** invading France = game over for French

 

Whenever I explain hybrids to people who don't really have a knowledge of cars (and even some who do) I always get the same reponse. "Oh but you have to plug them in though."

Its hard to believe that 8/9 years after the introduction of hybrids into the U.S. people still don't really know how they work. Can I get a PSA?

 

Well here is my usual go find some facts....and it PROVES in tough EUROPE people want HYBRIDS. 50k sold in 2006 and 100k sold in 2007, that is double the total in a year.

THis is just another not well thought out hate hybrid article. People should WELCOME any kind of technology that is an option than just gasoline engines. However, diesel fans are so threatened by hybrids, they now will go as far as claiming a hybrid produced from start to finish is now worse than a diesel.

http://www.greencarcongress.co....html

Toyota’s Hybrid Sales in Europe Pass 50,000-Unit Mark
19 June 2006

Cumulative European sales of both Toyota and Lexus brand hybrid vehicles have passed the 50,000-unit mark. Sales of the Toyota Prius have reached almost 41,000 units since going on sale in 2000. Sales of the Lexus RX 400h and GS 450h have reached a cumulative total of more than 10,000 units in just 17 months of being on the market.

Toyota expects its annual European hybrid sales to reach 37,400 units in 2006, while overall sales are expected to exceed 1 million units for the Toyota brand and attain 45,000 units for the Lexus brand. At those numbers, hybrids would represent 3.6% of Toyota’s sales in Europe.

By comparison, Toyota’s sales of hybrids in the US from January-May 2006 represented 6.7% of its total sales (67,279 hybrids out of 1,000,524 total light duty vehicles sold).

Of the major global markets, Europe is thought to be the least prone to adopt current gasoline-hybrid electric technology due to the market dominance of diesels. Diesels can basically deliver gains in fuel economy equivalent to those offered by gasoline-electric hybrids when compared to a conventional gasoline car.

Reaching 50,000 hybrid sales is a clear sign that Europeans have taken to this exciting new technology. Hybrid has already established itself as an advanced solution delivering both power and environmental performance. Toyota is committed to developing a range of cleaner technologies including hybrid, clean diesel and alternative fuels.
—Thierry Dombreval, Executive Vice President, Toyota Motor Europe

 

One year Later
Toyota European hybrid sales accelerate past 100,000 units


Toyota Motor Europe (TME) has announced that cumulative European sales of Toyota and Lexus hybrid vehicles have topped the 100,000 mark. Since hybrids were first launched in Europe in 2000, a total of 101,235 vehicles have been sold as of 31 July 2007. This achievement highlights a rapid acceleration in the uptake of hybrid vehicles, with more than 50 per cent of Toyota’s cumulative European sales achieved in the last 13 months.

The Toyota Prius – the world’s first mass-produced hybrid vehicle – maintains its position as Toyota’s best selling hybrid, with over 73,000 vehicles sold in Europe since 2000.

Total cumulative sales of Lexus hybrid vehicles have now exceeded 27,000 units in Europe, incorporating the launch of the LS 600h in June.

In 2007, Toyota expects its annual hybrid sales to reach 44,500 units, as part of an overall sales target for Toyota and Lexus vehicles of 1.22 million units.

“These results demonstrate a dramatic shift amongst European customers towards cleaner vehicles which offer greater fuel efficiency and a comfortable and powerful drive,” said Thierry Dombreval, Executive Vice-President of Toyota Motor Europe.

“This milestone coincides with 10 years of hybrid leadership for Toyota and endorses our belief that hybrid is a mainstream technology for Europe.”

Toyota’s hybrid technology combines a petrol engine with an electric motor to deliver the cleanest engine technology on the market today. Hybrid technology can be applied effectively to improve the efficiencies on a variety of power trains irrespective of whether they rely on gasoline, diesel, or alternative fuels. Hybrids offer lower vehicle emissions, exceptional fuel efficiency, seamless acceleration and quiet driving.

Toyota and Lexus currently have four different hybrid vehicles in their European vehicle line-up featuring either Toyota’s Hybrid Synergy Drive or Lexus Hybrid Drive technology. Cumulative worldwide hybrid sales broke the one million unit mark in June this year. Toyota has a global target of one million hybrid sales per year by the early 2010s, with European sales comprising up to 10 per cent of this target.

Source: Toyota

 

Actually this statement isn't correct at all. No offense.

People always compare the Jetta TDI to the Prius, but really they are apples and oranges. For one thing the Prius is alot bigger than a Jetta.

The Jetta TDI cost $2000 more than a Prius and during its final year of sales in the U.S. (2006) fuel economy was at 36/41 compared to the 60/51 of the Prius. Not even close. Personally, I never understood why people spent the extra $7k on the Jetta TDI, plus the premium for diesel fuel when you could get a Corolla for 15k that at the time was good for 32 mpg city, 41 hwy.

Toyota also makes money off of their hybrids, thanks to the popularity of the Prius and licensing their technology to Nissan their investment has begun to turn a profit.

 

Correct, the Prius turns a profit now.

 

I agree with you there is no viable alternative right now, but that's just the point I was making earlier.......the sooner we get started ON a viable alternative, the better off the situation will be. Hybrids, while effective at increasing gas mileage, still depend on a substance of limited supply, and increasingly more expensive...oil. So do diesels, though they do it with less drivetrain complexity than hybrids. But, sooner of later, like it or not, alternatives will have to be developed....especially with the exploding demand for energy in India and China.

At one point in our history, when the automobile was new, the same point you brought up was being made about gasoline...........

"Gasoline? Where the hell are we going to go for GASOLINE? Nobody SELLS it."

So, electric and steam-powered cars were developed as competitors....the famous Stanley Steamers were perhaps the most well-known. They persisted until there was an adequate network of gas stations nationwide.

 

But do you understand that Hybrid technology is NOT an alternative, its a supplement. It can work together with any engine, whether its gas, dieseld, hydrogen, electric or even steam. It just helps to regain some of the otherwise wasted energy.

Right now, speaking of true alternatives what do we have?

1) Hydrogen. A complete oxymoron. I don't know why even bother. It takes electric energy to generate hydrogen, and then hydrogen is used to create electric energy to power the car. Would be much more efficient to just use the electric energy directly, skipping the whole hydrogen nonsense.

2) Diesels. A step backwards that is luckily banned in my state on passenger vehicles, and could still benefit from a Hybrid system.

3) HCCI - not exactly an alternative to gasoline, just a more efficient gasoline engine, that operates similar to a diesel. Honda has been hyping it for ages, claiming that they are doing research on it. Count on Toyota beating them to it.

4) Plug-in Electric cars. Great, I want these. Electric engines are superior to internal combustion in every way. The only problem is that most of electricity in this country is generated by burning oil and coal - fossil fuels.

In my opinion the best way to create an altenative to gasoline cars, realistically, is to create nuclear power plants and electric plug in cars. Nuclear plants create clean energy, and plugging your car in is simpler than creating a Hydrogen fuel station on every city corner. Not to mention how much more efficient, cleaner, and more reliable electric cars would be. And you could still fit these electric cars with hybrid tech to make them even more efficient.

 

I think that people have yet to get over the fear of Nuclear power. But, that could be changing. My parents live on an 18000 acre lake created by Duke power. They made a smaller strictly lake for the Nuclear plant. The real estate is now prime, even in this housing market crisis. I asked my mom if it bothered her that they live so close to a Nuclear plant and he reply was no and that it is dirt cheap compared to electricity around Philadelphia.

 

But I can roll into a station at almost empty fill up and keep going.

Electric. I get almost empty I am screwed.