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Toyota/Subaru/Scion Lightweight Sports Car: Toyota GT86, Subaru BRZ, Scion FRS!

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Old 12-12-11, 07:54 PM
  #1846  
jwong77
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That car is absolutely stunning! :-) Awesome Moto! Congrats on the beautiful car!
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Old 12-12-11, 09:40 PM
  #1847  
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Originally Posted by motohide
Why thanks, I thought to share it as I had the honors of being the SECOND ever to drive a modded FRS. (ok for no more than half a block as they allowed me, but enough to report this much... hence I have no review yet of the dynamic capability first hand, yet) First was the famous journalist, Mark Voghn of AUTOWEEK who did get to drive it 14 of the 23 miles on this car's ODO. 9 previous miles in Japan by builders who hand assembled these two Scion MFG plate cars for Pre-Production presentation.
So glad we met in Cali, you are one of the few people I really look forward to write-ups and reviews. What an honor man!

I can't believe how good it looks in black with the drop and 18s...I bet its just a hoot to drive around town since its so compact...your own personal mini LFA.
 
Old 12-12-11, 10:07 PM
  #1848  
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Originally Posted by motohide
Yes That would be me.
Wow! Good review Wish I could have been there...
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Old 12-12-11, 10:12 PM
  #1849  
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This is a baby LFA, well the baby LFA that I can afford. It's highly likely that I am getting one of these as soon as it hits the dealer.
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Old 12-12-11, 11:53 PM
  #1850  
flipside909
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Originally Posted by MPLexus301
The center stack on the Scion is just so bad...really, really cheap looking
Will have to agree. A little disappointed that the auto climate controls and the cool features are reserved for 86 and BRZ. Considering this car is going to be a huge hit in the market, serious buyers in this segment, specifically those more savvy and mature will opt for a luxury trimmed car with creature comforts...meaning FR-S is going to be out of the picture.

I personally would go for the 86/FRS/BRZ with foglamps, auto climate control, push button start, alcantara/leather trimmed seats. But thats just me.
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Old 12-13-11, 01:20 AM
  #1851  
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Originally Posted by flipside909
Will have to agree. A little disappointed that the auto climate controls and the cool features are reserved for 86 and BRZ. Considering this car is going to be a huge hit in the market, serious buyers in this segment, specifically those more savvy and mature will opt for a luxury trimmed car with creature comforts...meaning FR-S is going to be out of the picture.

I personally would go for the 86/FRS/BRZ with foglamps, auto climate control, push button start, alcantara/leather trimmed seats. But thats just me.
Thats exactly what I would go for Ryan! ... although I am willing to sacrifice the auto climate control if scion offers the push button start. We already know that fogs will be optional...
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Old 12-13-11, 02:17 AM
  #1852  
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Originally Posted by flipside909
Will have to agree. A little disappointed that the auto climate controls and the cool features are reserved for 86 and BRZ. Considering this car is going to be a huge hit in the market, serious buyers in this segment, specifically those more savvy and mature will opt for a luxury trimmed car with creature comforts...meaning FR-S is going to be out of the picture.

I personally would go for the 86/FRS/BRZ with foglamps, auto climate control, push button start, alcantara/leather trimmed seats. But thats just me.
Who ever said any of this was deleted? It's a pre-production car, and things can still chnage in small bits and pieces... (it even says so on the Official Scion FRS, and Subaru BRZ pages!!)
And yours truly is going to talk to them about this matter, if I can!! AGH! I like it loaded as a LFA!! LOL
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Old 12-13-11, 02:33 AM
  #1853  
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After reading through most of this thread...I'm most definitely opting for the Subaru version.
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Old 12-13-11, 06:27 AM
  #1854  
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http://www.insideline.com/scion/fr-s...dont-know.html

2013 Scion FR-S: 10 Things You Don't Know
Finally, a Sports Car
By Josh Jacquot, Senior Editor | Published Dec 13, 2011

By now you know plenty about the 2013 Scion FR-S. You know it uses a 2.0-liter normally aspirated flat-4 cranking out 200 horsepower. You know it's got a six-speed manual transmission and you know it weighs about 2,800 pounds.

What you don't know is that we spent a day last week driving the car on a track in Japan and talking shop with its chief engineer, Tetsuya Tada. Below are the 10 most important facts we learned about this most engaging sports car.

1. It Feels Incredible
We drove the FR-S more than 50 miles on the 1.5-mile, 14-turn Sodegaura Forest Raceway outside Tokyo. The track was wet for about half those miles. As a result, we got a good feel for driving up to and beyond this car's limits. And the control that's available in that scenario is this car's most important property.

Its chassis will allow you to approach the limits as slowly or as quickly as you choose, informing you the entire time about when it's going to let go. Recovering from a slide is similarly easy and drama-free. And don't let anyone tell you there's not enough power available to do so. Power oversteer is readily available in 2nd-gear corners.

The FR-S's steering — although quite light — offers a granular precision not available since Mitsubishi's Evo IX disappeared. There's more information coming through this single Toyota steering wheel than is available in the rest of the Toyota lineup combined.

There are no problems to drive around either. The brakes were adequate on a small circuit like this, there's enough power from the flat-4 and the chassis is among the most effective ever labeled as a sports car. The whole package comes together to fill a gaping hole in the American market.

It's a cheap sports car that doesn't feel cheap. And that's something we've needed for a long time.

2. It Has a Torsen Limited-Slip Differential
Tada-san prefers the quicker reactions of a clutch-type limited-slip differential but settled on a Torsen gear-type differential because of its progressive engagement. There's also a brake differential built into the stability control system's operation which Tada-san says reacts faster than the Torsen anyway. But when stability control is fully disabled (by pressing and holding the traction control button for 3 seconds) the brake differential is gone as well.

And that's when the magic happens anyway, right?

3. There's Solid Evidence a Turbo Is Coming
Tada-san tells us the FR-S's Aisin-built six-speed manual has headroom to handle more torque, but he won't reveal how much. Still, his conspicuous laugh tells us there's enough to accommodate turbocharging.

The primary benchmark for the FR-S was the Porsche Cayman.

Also, for a car with a flat engine the FR-S's hood line is awfully high. Forward visibility isn't as good as we imagined it would be in a car with this layout. But this might be a worthwhile compromise.

A quick look under the hood reveals several inches between the top of the intake manifold and the underside of the hood — probably enough to package an intercooler. It looks to us like there's enough real estate for a WRX-style intercooler mount with the intake manifold feeding from the rear instead of from the front as it does in normally aspirated trim.

4. It Has an Ultra-Low Center of Gravity
Toyota's internal testing shows the FR-S to have a considerably lower center of gravity than Porsche's Cayman, Nissan's GT-R, Mitsubishi's Lancer Evolution and Subaru's STI. In fact, the FR-S's center of gravity is only about 0.6 inch higher than the Lexus LFA — impressive considering the FR-S is a mass-produced car bound by Toyota's design standards regulating ride height, tire/fender clearance and other factors. The LFA is not.

Little-known fact? The Porsche 911 GT3's center of gravity is between the LFA and FR-S.

5. It Uses Prius Tires
Yes, we didn't believe it either, but the FR-S uses the same 215/45-R17 Michelin Primacy rubber that's optional on the Prius. In our first drive of the Toyota 86 we reported that the tires were the same size as those from the Prius option package, but we didn't think it possible that the much-hyped Toyota sports car would use the exact rubber as found on the efficiency-focused Prius.

Well, it does.

Tada-san insists that the FR-S's rubber doesn't share just a name with the tires on the FR-S. Rather, it's actually the exact same tire utilizing the same construction and compound as the optional Prius rubber. The reason, he says, is that the car's light weight and low center of gravity don't demand a high-grip tire.

Modest grip, stunning balance. It's a formula that works better than expected. The FR-S's fun quotient exceeds the sum of its parts.

6. It Has a Low Drag Coefficient and Minimal Weight
With a 0.27 Cd the FR-S is not only slick, it's bound to be fairly efficient. We had our doubts until we drove it, but the cars we drove — prototypes, all of them — couldn't have weighed more than 2,800 pounds. Factor those figures in with a modern normally aspirated engine sporting a unique fuel system and there's bound to be a good EPA mileage rating in the FR-S's future.

Also, that engine will be rated at 200 hp in the U.S., Tada says. U.S. models will get a unique, less restrictive exhaust to bump them from 200 PS (197 SAE hp) to a full 200 SAE hp. It also adds a better exhaust note, says Tada.

7. A Convertible Isn't Likely
Tada-san didn't say it specifically, but it's clearly how he feels. He admits that a convertible version is possible, though. But because the car was designed as a hardtop from the beginning and it relies on its roof for both structure and handling ability, the idea of a convertible FR-S is a bad one.

"It would require plenty of additional engineering, more bracing and more weight," says Tada-san. Scion isn't asking for it, but here's our advice: Don't bother.

8. A Stripped-Down Model Is Likely
A bare-bones stripper model — one with steel wheels and no amenities — will be sold in Japan. For now, the U.S. FR-S won't be offered in this trim. But it's easy to imagine this happening down the road should the platform become as popular as it deserves to be.

We can't imagine a better spec-series racecar than the FR-S. It's relatively cheap, its power is supplied by an engine that's not overstressed or turbocharged and it's got a roof endowing it with real structure. Miata, eat your heart out.

9. It Had Serious Benchmarks
The primary benchmark for the FR-S was the Porsche Cayman. Other cars — including Honda's S2000 and the Peugeot RCZ — were used earlier in the process. But according to Tada-san it's the Cayman's combination of centralized mass, low center of gravity and linear control feel that he found most compelling and most wanted to emulate. And we see nothing wrong with a car that feels like a Cayman and costs half as much.

10. Its Suspension Setup Is Different From the Subaru BRZ
The FR-S has lower spring rates than Subaru's BRZ, but its dampers are stiffer. The change primarily represents the tuning strategies of each company and personal preferences of the development engineers. This and the styling differences are the only substantial changes between the cars.

Scion will, at a minimum, offer aftermarket lowering springs and stabilizer bars for the FR-S as well as several alloy wheel options.

The manufacturer provided Edmunds this vehicle for the purposes of evaluation.
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Old 12-13-11, 06:42 AM
  #1855  
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Originally Posted by flipside909
Will have to agree. A little disappointed that the auto climate controls and the cool features are reserved for 86 and BRZ. Considering this car is going to be a huge hit in the market, serious buyers in this segment, specifically those more savvy and mature will opt for a luxury trimmed car with creature comforts...meaning FR-S is going to be out of the picture.

I personally would go for the 86/FRS/BRZ with foglamps, auto climate control, push button start, alcantara/leather trimmed seats. But thats just me.
I agree. Lots of people on ft86club flaming those who want these options, but I see no downside. Like motohide pointed out, this car is going to appeal to all ages, sexes, backgrounds and types. I wouldn't be surprised to see some people coming from 3 Series coupes or G37s into this car. For those types of buyers, the extra features like LED headlights and auto climate control make a big difference.

I see no reason to NOT offer them...it's broadens the appeal of the car greatly. If you want base...get base. If you want premium...get premium. However, PLEASE Scion, offer both!!!

Originally Posted by motohide
Who ever said any of this was deleted? It's a pre-production car, and things can still chnage in small bits and pieces... (it even says so on the Official Scion FRS, and Subaru BRZ pages!!)
And yours truly is going to talk to them about this matter, if I can!! AGH! I like it loaded as a LFA!! LOL
Woot! Please do!
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Old 12-13-11, 08:19 AM
  #1856  
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Originally Posted by MPLexus301
I agree. Lots of people on ft86club flaming those who want these options, but I see no downside. Like motohide pointed out, this car is going to appeal to all ages, sexes, backgrounds and types. I wouldn't be surprised to see some people coming from 3 Series coupes or G37s into this car. For those types of buyers, the extra features like LED headlights and auto climate control make a big difference
Woot! Please do!
i think it's more flaming those who are uselessly *****ing that they want them. They are available... just get the Subaru. It's silly to complain about something so absolutely useless to the intent of the car. The scion will be inevitably cheaper.... they had to differentiate it from the Subaru somehow. I guess that's where they chose to cut the cost. Makes sense IMHO.
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Old 12-13-11, 08:32 AM
  #1857  
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I think its only a matter of time before FI is an option from factory. I will definitely consider one then.
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Old 12-13-11, 08:59 AM
  #1858  
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Originally Posted by MPLexus301
I agree. Lots of people on ft86club flaming those who want these options, but I see no downside. Like motohide pointed out, this car is going to appeal to all ages, sexes, backgrounds and types. I wouldn't be surprised to see some people coming from 3 Series coupes or G37s into this car. For those types of buyers, the extra features like LED headlights and auto climate control make a big difference.

I see no reason to NOT offer them...it's broadens the appeal of the car greatly. If you want base...get base. If you want premium...get premium. However, PLEASE Scion, offer both!!!



Woot! Please do!
Offering both versions changes the whole idea of Scion just pick the color and transmission
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Old 12-13-11, 09:10 AM
  #1859  
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...is change a bad thing?
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Old 12-13-11, 09:13 AM
  #1860  
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Originally Posted by MPLexus301
...is change a bad thing?
When building to a set spec, it can potentially make the base spec more affordable
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